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I really don't see things that way. This might sound pretentious but earlier in the thread I was saying that what Maxperson is doing is a form of expression about the human condition. Making a statement. Basically mutually creating art. It's just from the first person perspective it's often...

Hopefully people can say see Crimson is saying the same thing as me. Our play priorities aren't about winning or losing but lead us inexorably towards the ethical/meaning ramifications.

Oh I'm assuming you're entering the conversation in good faith but I'm rejecting your framing on aesthetic grounds. I'll continue our hypothetical to hopefully show why. Me OOC: Wait Andre, you just said you commanded me, was that a real thing or like an empty threat? We appear to have totally...

Without more situational framing, the thematic pay off is limited but I'll give it a try. 'You command me?' The Squire is silent for a moment and averts his eyes. then looks straight at you, determination in his face 'Command all you want good Ser, I'm ready to accept the consequences, true...

You fundamentally misunderstand this way of playing, both the goals and the procedures. The players (and I include the GM as a player) aren't interested in seeing the story go their way or in winning, which precludes the whole framing of the thing as a puzzle. They make a character, nail down...

To give an example of a mechanic that I think does a lot of heavy lifting. The roll trigger is: When your characters authority is challenged you are overcome with indignant rage. Roll and consult the table below. 10: You manage to contain the rage 7-9: You have the rage under control for the...

The way I play I'm assuming that this moment is a defining moment of the characters life. I know what they'll do in most situations but the results of the fiction might change the characters worlds view. I guess I'm playing to find out three things, in broad strokes. One: How the situation...

That's really interesting because the intersection of mechanics and 'it's what my character would do' is what I consider peak Narrativist design. Do you think the mechanical considerations contributed more to the bad taste or the fact you had to retain group cohesion?

Some people play Monsterhearts in a similar way to Masks, where social conflict inflicts emotional conditions but I don't like it. It's almost always better for the social tag to be what a group thinks about you. Monsterhearts has one genius mechanic but it's genius because it's the only overt...

Without going too deep. The constraints on characters are. One: When you choose a class there is an implicit set of values involved that must be part of the character 'at the start of play'. So for instance if you pick The Driver, part of his value set/beliefs/personality must involve the...

Yeah but I think I could sell Maxperson or Crimson on the Apocalypse World (maybe the Monsterhearts) mechanics because they're a really good example of applying gentle pressure in one area to charge the actual free-form roleplay (that max and crimson describe doing) that happens in another...

Without context it's hard to tell but in principle I wouldn't have a problem with that. In Monsterhearts there is a similar mechanic for attraction and in that game it's a masterpiece of design. It often has similar results to the one you sketch. 'Oh I'm attracted to him, time to go beat him to...

I 100% agree with you. When you switch sides due to a villain monologue you're making an artistic statement and if the dice are taking that away from you then you're just generating fiction together, which I find inane but each to their own. There are some nuances and caveats though. So you...

Great post. I'll offer an alternative explanation although it's more convoluted than yours and I'm not sure it's more true. The reward of roleplaying is either in challenge or in expression, and it's a social reward. A lot of people who claim to be immersionists are really interested in...

I think the permanence of stuff is such a big deal that the tables relationship towards it creates fundamentally different modes of play. Roads to Rome: What Brennan Lee Mulligan does. Essentially a mix between quantum ogres and responsiveness with more emphasis on the quantum ogres...

Yeah that's exactly what I mean you've got the nail on the head. And yeah my example was of a generative consequence. I disagree rather strongly with Vincent. I'm not saying the phenomena he's talking about didn't occur but I think he's misdiagnosing it. (the following comes across as ranty...

I think a lot of what clearstream is saying may be applicable if you focus only on failure and ask if it's generative or reductive. Example generative: Thief is trying to open the vault to get to the gold inside. They roll a failure and so they open the vault but villain is waiting for them...

I was thinking of Type A as having causal effects not related to character action but I'm conflating a load of things. There's the trigger. When we roll. Whether the roll is determining the effect of a characters action or other stuff, or both. How much the consequences are pre-established...

I'd put it in the no-myth category as far as super structure goes and its resolution is probably closer to type A. I'd go so far as to say that Burning Wheel and Underworld are the two primary texts from which modern Narrativism descends, with Burning Wheel being the most influential in terms of...

It's an interesting topic. In the type of play I do, it's not that you're never introducing anything new, it's that the criteria for introducing new stuff is heavily constrained. I think I've written about this type of structure before but to lay it out again. step one: create a cast of...