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This is why I've made repeated comparisons between Roberts play and my own and have pointed out how those exact preconditions created a moment of Narrativist reward in the play of @SableWyvern Where the current disconnects happen are along the lines of realism and when/how a situation is...

Yeah, that's my default way of doing it. Some games do ask for different ways.

So by reward I mean 'type' of fun. I for instance, you're watching a few good men, there's a scene where Kaffee has to decide if he wants to question the Colonel. As you're watching that you have anticipation, you want to find out what happens, when he decides there's a type of pay off (thematic...

We're getting somewhere but you're still misunderstanding a few things. Pretend me and my group are playing 5E or whatever edition you play in. Forget techniques for the moment. The defining feature is the group reward, I'll state this again because it's the thing that you need to beat people...

This is a common misconception. All Narrativism proper refers to is a type of fun. To be reductive: A character chooses one value over another, (first reward). That has consequences (second reward) In your scenario about the wolf, there's a beggar character who is trying to avenge his son...

Exactly this. A sandbox where the GM is making up what happens in response to the players going somewhere is faux agency because it's entirely inconsequential. To have consequence there must be CHANGE, not just revealing the world. As soon as you create the conditions for change, an established...

To me that's just normal play. I want to bring attention to something. The elements in play were: A brewing civil war An envoy who wants to recover a corpse A priestess A PC with differing allegiances To the extent the player choice was fun, then you can easily create a set of elements...

The last time I had to make something up where positioning details mattered in a way that was system relevant was a month or two ago. It was post-apocalyptic sorcerer and there was a church of fanatics who were keeping a demon in a vault. I remember my thought process was something like: I want...

I'm not sure I see them as being in conflict but if they do come into conflict then expression wins. Although I consider this pretty standard Narrativism. At it's core a group of people build up fiction and are using the (imagined) constraints of the fiction as a medium for expression. The hard...

I get where you're coming from, the mechanics would create a 'put up or shut up' situation. On the other hand it just seems like the group weren't interested in exploring theme stuff. At the very least we should have discovered: what all the players and you, irl, think of the Paladins actions...

Chiming in again to say I think the exact opposite is true but I'm not sure I can explain why better than I have done previously. To recap: If I have a choice, then as a person I'm making an artistic statement about the situation as it strikes me. Where that choice is, within the structure of...

I'd also expect a good chunk of Narrativist leaning people to be put off by personality mechanics as well, for the exact same type of reason. Declaring your characters priorities and declaring what changes them and in response to what, is pretty much the avenue of expression in a lot of rpg's.

Sure but there probably are people who do want far more of those moments but don't understand how to get them. And note that it goes both ways. Both Ben Milton and Sandrasan (two people heavily involved in the OSR space), both started off with Narrativist games and then realised they weren't...

I would say the external restrictions are in fact there whether you are aware of them or not. I think this is part of Abdul's critique of trad culture, the fish can no longer see the water. That being said, I'm not on a particular mission to convert trad players and I do understand the view...

There are lots of players whose fun seems to come from solving. What I find interesting is when it doesn't and how impactful that is. There's this guy called 'The angry GM' and he bashes Narrativist games a lot and dispenses a lot of a certain strain of trad advice. There was one interesting...

I have a few questions: To what degree is the group aware of this happening? They had an impact on you but was this also a big deal, source of fun, for the group as a whole or was it more stuff that was meaningful to you. How often does this stuff occur? Is it several times a session, once...

Players can railroad as well. Railroading is primarily a state of mind, an approach to the activity that prioritises plot. Failure to understand that leads to the following conflation: The guards can't be bribed because I don't want them to get past the guards (railroading, plot centric) The...

It's what the emphasis is on. You and @robertsconley play in a similar structural fashion to me but the emphasis for you guys is more on the adventure (and presumably uncovering mysteries and how they're solved). So all that thematic stuff happens and is probably essential to good play but it's...

I mean ethics in the sense of a world view, an ethos. Both that characters have them and the players at the table can mutually comprehend and enjoy an ethos in action, in conflict with another ethos, and the consequences it has. (which to me, is Narrativism in a nutshell)

This is a really rough sketch of how I'd use the material and rewrite it to what I'd consider a more thematically potent situation. Don't take this as a criticism though, just showing what I'd do. I'd have to work on it for a few more hours to really beat it into shape. One criticism for the new...