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  1. outsider

    What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

    Factual accuracy is my stake in the edition war. I really don't care who's on what side or why they chose the side they did, as quite frankly I find the edition war pointless. What I do care about is talking about the game of D&D, and I think it pollutes the discussion if we allow people to...
  2. outsider

    What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

    This is true, of course. My point is that if you make a contraversial and curt post, you should expect contraversial and curt replies to follow. When said replies occur, you are not a victim. Maybe they aren't doing the right thing either, but you brought it on yourself.
  3. outsider

    What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

    I agree. However, coddling people by never telling them they are wrong isn't going to accomplish that.
  4. outsider

    What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

    And when you say "In my opinion 4e plays like a glorified miniatures skirmish game", it's reasonable to expect such a reply. Basically, what you are suggesting is that I respond to somebody with patience, when they have deliberately chosen to post in an impatient manner(have no doubt that it...
  5. outsider

    What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

    Whether it actually is an opinion or not is irrelevant, as the only clue on your intent is the words you write. When you choose to write your opinions as a declaration of fact, the reader is in the right when they treat your words as a declaration of fact. Language works the way it does for a...
  6. outsider

    What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

    Sure there is. People that are ignorant on the topic might actually take your opinion at face value and treat it as fact. While uninformed readers aren't as common as they were back in the lead up/early days of 4e, I'm sure there still are some lurking around the boards. Something like "I...
  7. outsider

    What's really at stake in the Edition Wars

    Why I occasionally dip my toes into the edition war: When you allow people to spread falsehoods and you don't call them on it, you run a serious risk of the audience starting to treat those falsehoods as though they are the truth. Much of the edition wars are subjective. However, there are...
  8. outsider

    Char-op Box

    The original post isn't the only way to build a successful character in 4e. It's not even the only way to build an optimized character in 4e. Race selection is more complicated than just picking whatever gives you a bonus to both your primary and secondary attribute. Such a race is going to...
  9. outsider

    What do you like about 4E? (not a battle in the Edition Wars :^) )

    My favorite thing about 4e is probably the Martial power source. Finally sword swingers get the same tactical depth as the casters, and are just as powerful. It's great that fighters and the like finally have unique abilities that can't be easily duplicated/osbsoleted by magic.
  10. outsider

    D&D is an Adult Game?

    There are several reasons they don't do this. 1. D&D isn't more "mature" than WoW. 2. The purpose of advertising isn't to alienate potential customers, it's to bring them in. 3. The idea that D&D is some sort of natural end point to a progression of games in the average gamer's life is...
  11. outsider

    Are people still mad about . . .

    I'm still ticked that people consider character roles a mmoism despite the fact players had been acknowledging roles in D&D for decades. It's like everybody that disliked 4e developed selective amnesia.
  12. outsider

    How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

    For the most part. Things that one group considers a serious problem will be fine or even encouraged in the next. There are very few playstyle problems that will be universally considered a problem in every group, which is my point. Powergaming isn't a problem in every group. Weak characters...
  13. outsider

    How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

    They do exist. I've played with at least 3 of this type of player. They are the kind of player that believes that people who play weak characters are better roleplayers than those who play powerful ones. They are the kind of player that uses the term "rollplaying" as a slur. They are the...
  14. outsider

    How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

    Right, I agree with this. However, it's reasonable to expect that every player at least tries to create a character that will fit in. If they are deliberately trying to not fit in, I think it's reasonable to give them the boot. I don't mean "well, I just created my guy organically to match my...
  15. outsider

    How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

    Most powergamers wouldn't cast aspersions over an unoptimized feat. A single feat makes very little difference. A 14 in your attack stat has a far greater effect. In 4e, at least. In most previous editions of D&D, at some point you had an attack roll high enough you were guaranteed to hit...
  16. outsider

    How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

    It can be applied to many things aside from powergaming/optimisation as well. Take, for example, a campaign where the DM sets out no alignment guidelines. 4 players decide to play good, and one insists upon playing evil. By the logic some people have presented in this thread, the 4 players...
  17. outsider

    How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

    Change "some" to "most", and the answer is yes.
  18. outsider

    How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

    Okay, this is starting to get a bit annoying. I never said "everybody" or even "every player"(as somebody else misquoted me), I said "Every player but one".
  19. outsider

    How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

    I don't follow the "DM decides everything" philosophy. While the DM has the authority to decide what is appropriate for the setting/theme of the game, the player group has the authority to decide what is appropriate for the pc group(within the campaign limits set out by the DM). The conflict...
  20. outsider

    How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

    The truly bizzarre thing is that in 4th edition, they could create this character with 16 str and 16 int, and the character wouldn't be drastically weaker than a more standard fighter. Or, even better, they could create a tactical warlord. Yet, for some reason, the players that do this sort...
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