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So I agree that the GM can metagame similar to what you describe. He is often encouraged to do just that. I think what most mean is that they are generally against player metagaming. Nor would showing an instance of them allowing a player metagaming mean they like player metagaming rather...

Hmmm, we very much believe he preferred 4e.

Yea. The consistent framing of the changes as big when praising it and not a big deal when answering criticism is certainly odd to me.

I think the most accurate explanation is that I’m just talking about what you said. But also, what you just did is classic deflection away from what you said and onto some accused personal characteristic of me. Awesome! Though playing or running a game doesn’t necessarily mean you like it...

Yea. IMO they are typically very flexible within a narrow band of parameters that align to the kind of game they like.

I don’t know whether you disagree that your statement directly implies a lack of satisfaction or that a lack of satisfaction directly implies a level of dislike.

I think most of the hobby is just not prescriptive about it.

It does. Edit: to elaborate - the connotation of the phrase ‘actually gives me what I wanted’ implies a lack of satisfaction with everything before that which gave you what you wanted and a lack of satisfaction implies a level of dislike.

Yes it does.

And yet you clearly don’t accept that some people feel 4e d&d isn’t real d&d. Essentially you keep trying to exclude them. But they aren’t being hostile to your fun. Saying 4e doesn’t feel like ‘real d&d’ to me isn’t saying that you or even they cannot have fun doing it. Nothing is wrong...

Here.

I’m sorry, are you saying that elaborating on timed spell durations and updating the hp/healing system were enough to cause you to go from disliking all the previous iterations of d&d to liking 4e d&d?

Maybe. I kind of lean that way but am not committed. Though, I think it might also help to keep in mind the difference between Emulation and Simulation. Emulation meaning only the external output needs to 'match' the thing being emulated. Simulation meaning the the internal states and...

Yep. In play we often have to decide what our character does and if we treat the game as a game then we might arrive at one answer and if we treat the game as a simulation we might arrive at another.

How is saying '4e D&D is the version of the game that actually gives me what I wanted from D&D' not agreeing that it was a radical departure from what came before, even for you? IMO some people love it because it was a radical departure and some people hate it for that.

This may also help explain the reservations about giving traditional DM roles to players.

It’s funny because I like 4e! If my group would have been interested we would have given it a go in 2024 but they weren’t. But I have a greater appreciation now of why it didn’t click for everyone.

And there it is. It’s not good enough for me to say some people feel it’s not real d&d. I have to submit that their opinion is wrong despite us both knowing their meaning of ‘real d&d’ refers to a concept other than its legal identity. Just note. I’m not the one making those kinds of demands here.

I view genre simulation as the more general term. ‘Real Word-like’ would just be one specific genre or aspect of a genre.

Sorry but you don’t get to decide the objective identity of the thing.