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The glass wasn't particularly slippery at this point, actually; IIRC it was a DC 10-15 balance check, or something similar. If I was to run a level-appropriate encounter for higher level characters, I would probably have "slipperier" glass - otherwise it wouldn't be a level-appropriate...

But those same factors apply to skills as well. In fact, the skills example is worse because all skill-boosting spells and skills start with +5 and ramp by 5's from there. Magic weapons and armour are capped at +5, at, essentially, 20th level; whereas boots of elvenkind give you a +10 bonus at...

Thank you - that's a very good point. D&D, for better or for worse, is the "mass-market" RPG, as much as we have such a thing. This means, among other things, that compromises for ease of use ought to be made.

Should characters have the tools to take on wildly non-level appropriate challenges, though? What is a level appropriate DC for a 10th level character. Why is that a level-appropriate DC for a 10th level character? Under the current skill system, that question cannot be answered for the general...

I was in fact talking about "inherent" bonuses to BAB, saves, and skills. If you start talking about additions from magic, the delta gets worse. Magic weapons are limited by the rules to a +5 enhancement bonus. Skill bonuses start at +5 and amp up from there, and a +5 skill bonus costs about as...

the Fighter, at 20thlevel, has a +10 delta over the wizard in BAB. Well inside the +15 delta that I am claiming as the point at which the system starts to break down. A character never gets more than +10 "better" than any other at attacking. A character never gets more than +6 "better" than...

I don't have a problem with low-level PCs being challenged by a DC 15 skill check (nor really with the thought that the rogue can auto-pass that skill check). I have a problem with mid-level PCs not being able to pass a DC 25 skill check that the skillmonkey still autopasses. I have a HUGE...

Ehn? I didn't say anything about how the bard and rogue can't manage unless they preplan (though it is, to a certain extent, true, because they don't have enough skill points to cover all their bases simultaneously). And I'm "poor rogue" if EVERYONE ELSE gets more skill points (even if the rogue...

See my immediately previous post - the current skill system has too large a range to make messing with DCs anything but a band-aid. No, it wasn't aimed at you. I have a problem with adventure design because it has to be able to handle a job that's too big, as a consequence of the wide-open...

If I mess with the DCs, I am hard-capped by the system at right around DC18 or so if I want an unskilled person to ever make the check. Softcapped at DC 15. Skillmonkey can "take 0" against a DC 15 test at around 10th level assuming a +2 stat bonus. He can "take 0" against it at 5th level if he...

Good for Roger. But the DC 15 is still a bloody hard challenge for a wizard at 10th level if he has no climb, and worse if he has a strength penalty. It's even worse for the fighter who hasn't been buying climb, because of armor-check penalties. Whereas the rogue who's been maxing Climb for the...

How do I challenge, in the same encounter, a character with a +15 skill check modifier and a character with a +0 (or even a negative skill modifier due to armor-check penalties) with the same environmental challenge, and have both be challenged, but not prevented from acting? Without having to...

Heres the problem with this thinking in 3.5 - Skills is about all the Rogue has going for him. Bumping everyone's skill points make the rogue less powerful relatively - if everyone can be good at skills outside their expertise, whither the rogue? Even if the rogue bumps his skill points as well...

I'm not arguing that you can't do the skilled party thing in D&D as it stands. I am arguing that it is harder than it needs to be and that SWSE gives a better approach for the general case. I prefer Shadowrun to D&D, to be honest, at least partially because it is a skill-based system at the...

The handwave was "Depending on magic items". Sure, anyone can handle a challenge if they get to have a specific magic item for the job (skill-boosters are the easiest one here). I will point out, that using the SWSE system, if the DC is set to be a challenge someone trained in the skill, the...

In Shadowrun this works because there was no barrier to entry (and no excessive cost) to picking up the base set of "sneaking" skills. (Around my table, you got warned about bringing a character to the game without the ability to minimally participate in sneaking and socializing - by the other...

I hated the SWSE skill system when I first saw it too. But I "grew up" playing Shadowrun, a pure skill-based system; with no real restrictions on what skills you can take and a system that doesn't have the huge ranges in power than D&D has. I now look at the D&D skill system and wonder why I...

I have tried to run this type encounter at mid-levels; it doesn't work; at and quite low levels the disconnect becomes obvious. Try this at third level and tell me what the Wizard, fighter, and Cleric do when they have to make a DC 20 Balance check (a challenge for the maxed-out balance-monkey -...

Essentially, in Saga it does. Both what D&D considers AC and what D&D considers Reflex save are rolled up into a Reflex Defense. D&D's answer to this has historically been to ramp up HP as Attack Bonus ramps up, rather than ramping AC as AB ramps.

Which is why Saga seems to go with giving re-rolls rather than mechanical bonuses. Rerolls help a single player, but don't require that you make the challenge impossible for people without them.