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When your players try to come up with something "reasonable" within the genre, do you apply the same level of scrutiny, the same highly critical eye, as you obviously do towards D&D process sim rules (as per upthread)?

I'm not sure I get it, but I'm trying very hard. You're saying you gave up trying to suspend disbelief in D&D. So if a player narrates CaGI or whatever in some way that "falls apart badly under scrutiny" (as the going phrase is now), it doesn't suspend your disbelief, because you don't have any...

Do you or do you not apply the same scrutiny to whenever a player uses a non-process-sim mechanic and narrates something equally ludicrous that falls apart badly under scrutiny? Short answer please.

Thank you for the effort. I will review it over time along with CJ's comments. My conclusion so far is, unfortunately, that using these terms is a minefield and I best leave it alone. I normally would take it at face value and try to find value in it. However, a handful of you guys seem rather...

Let's be pragmatic and not arm chair academics and rule this out for most people, k? You know, still a little too condescending for my taste. Would anybody here like me to write that "I could play 4E by lowering my expectations and/or pretending that DnD Results Sim does the job just fine by...

Don't get me started on that :)

Mapping the mental stats to the physical stats (or willpower to a single ability score) seems a bit too much like the 9 alignments and the Great Wheel. Can't we let the ability scores just be without all the 'gamist' cross referencing?

Yes to this point for sure. Still thinking about the rest of your points. I have a vague post in mind about how immersion (the kind I always knew) worked best with good worldbuilding. Good compelling fluff builds the world in-game. "Simulationist" mechanics then help the players roleplay the...

I think I remember previous versions of D&D that gave examples of characters that are low in Cha but high in Wis/willpower, or high in Cha but low in Wis/willpower as a means of contrast. I could be wrong; it's a very vague memory. Either way, my gut feeling is that charisma is conflated with...

It adds something for me. Stalemate. Honestly, in my head, I've singled you out as the poster boy for 4E victim complex. There, I said it. I haven't interacted with anyone else on this forum who gave me the same impression. Which really makes it impossible to reconcile with you in any way, on...

Ya, I haven't decided it I like it or not. My gut feeling is that willpower shouldn't be assigned to Cha either. One could make the case that willpower is just as much assignable to Con or hit points as much any other stat. So I'm thinking so far that divorcing willpower from ability scores is...

Unless that's a typo, I think that, in 5E, Wis does NOT touch upon willpower. I think willpower is now divorced from ability scores and translocated to willpower points that the Sorcerer uses. I assume this because "willpower" is NOT included under the Wisdom ability score description in the...

The fluff for the warlock class (especially invocations) is AMAZING! Very compelling, stirs the imagination, and very importantly to me, synergizes well with the mechanics

Make sense for some archetypes I guess (get permanent power, pay for later if you doublecross). Before you create a warlock, make a pact with the Dungeon Master entity. The deal is that the patron will not yoink your PC's powers without your consent. Reading the playtest now, I believe the...

Also, not to distract from the above points, but if the sorcerer is so Cha-based, why does the playtest frequently used the words "will" and "willpower"? If willpower was so important, I want to use Wisdom and not Charisma (if I don't get to use Con). Here it gets interesting. The SRD define...

I haven't made time to parse and recompile all the posts and different voices over the last dozens of pages. So I have some questions about the labels: Note: I've italicized help and likely and frequently on purpose to avoid binary black-and-white arguments (those are rarely or never helpful)...

In that character concept, how do you explain why this dark patron is giving away fiendish powers like free candy? What's in it for him/her? Why wouldn't the patron keep checking on the progress of the dark pact like a bad landlord and the warlock is paying rent? Why is the PC warlock apparently...

Looking at the source fiction for warlocks, I think warlocks should do some brown-nosing or favor-beseeching or whatever you call it. 4E warlocks seem to get a free pass. Any consequences of these dark dealings (which would be very interesting to roleplay) were AFAICT delegated to the DM and...

Love the idea of a Con sorcerer, who drains from his own stamina to power spells (sorta like Raistlin but without spellbooks) as much as the fighter draws upon his strength to wield weapons. One reason I rarely played sorcerers was because of the Cha thing. It bugged me. Yes, yes, I know Cha is...

Wow, this thread suddenly had a growth spurt. Nagol said something which, although nicely concise, basically recapped what I thought was written by everybody else for hundreds of post beforehand on various threads, but suddenly, this time the thread takes a whole new tone. Well, whatever...