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Semantic contortions like "WOTC folks have come out and said that the class role of "leader" does not in fact signify party leadership." ?

Disruptive schmucks exist in every iteration of the game. If they are more disruptive than anyones particular table enjoys the dm and/or host has the same rule available as in every other iteration of the game "you are no longer welcome" There is no need to say NO it doesn't work like that -- at...

First of Jaer I like you, you are getting your point across in a style much more to my liking than some other posters in this thread. As is the case with many others we disagree on how nailed down and firmed up the city needs to be. And thats okay, as an example of this were I running a chase...

Where exactly does the article place the Warlord as the "commander" of the party ? I could also dig out the preview books and point out where they say that the leader role does not make one the face or leader of the party. IF you have people who abuse power or knowledge at your table now they...

But isn't the sky falling? won't the first two be all that any table other than yours and mine get ? Wait you mean it isn't and we won't be the only lucky ones, and if we do get abusive players we have ways of dealing with them ? WHEW the rest of the thread had me worried there. Is it scary...

Wow so every table prior to the warlord was one of utopian delight with no overbearing players trying to tell others how or what to play, where to move, what to use , what feats to take. Then came the 4E bane of existence "the Warlord" Since no one had ever acted abusively or smarter and better...

Do you have an opinion on which side will be deemed "not playing well with others" ? Is it "NO NO NO if I wanted to go there I would have gone there leave me alone and let me play my character my way" or "I am moving you here and you can't stop me" or "Hey fred can you help me get close...

See now I just have issue accepting that a person who adventures for a living wouldn't be able to at least "ball park" their own limitations. I ,in rl, know that I can jog X number of miles before I am going to need to place my hands on my knees, or sit down, and take a few moments to regain my...

We don't normally use a battlemat at our gaming table, mainly because our gaming table IS the living room with everyone on couches, the floor, standing, getting Mt Dew or snacks etcetera. Even when we are at the kitchen table the space that could be the battlemat usually has books or food or...

Not to help the other camp of this discussion out too much, but couldn't the rules against stabbing party members in the back have something to do with those pesky alignments ?

Zymry "Melbar I have noticed your ire for goblins drives your swords to strike with greater ferocity that one is wearing different armor perhaps your skills are best used there. (melbar is a ranger with favoured enemy goblin) Lexyana I have seen your dagger do wicked things when your enemy isn't...

Just to add since I missed the question in Rykarr's post. It really is mostly mind's eye, we've been gaming together for nigh on 20 years now so being sure we are all "on the same page" as to the situation is really quite simple. "as you burst through the door to the north you see 8 kobolds...

I guess it comes down to the people at the table, and the control the DM (or someone else) has over what happens within the group dynamic. I suppose one could make the argument that I am the "most bossy" at the table when it comes to poor feat and gear choices among newer players. My advice has...

Rounser do you/have you watched the series firefly ? or the movie Serenity ?

My point is that your side of this discussion has been saying "the warlord's powers are broken because they turn my hero into "captain co-operation" and the party into a quasi military unit. I don't see how these are logical assertions based on what I have read and seen and my tables playstyle...

you misunderstand.. likely because I could have been clearer. I personally love 4e. It sounds amazing. I don't think it will be any harder to play without a mat in 4e than it was to play without one in 3.X, and I plan on picking it up eventually and my group will do what we did with 3e to 3.5...

Show me how the inclusion of a warlord turns my adventuring party into a military squad anymore than a class from BO9S or heck even a fighter or anyone that needs flanking does.

1) how is it "hardcoded" into the rules ? And I think equally as important to frank and open intelligent discussion what does "hardcoded" mean to you. To me it means unable to avoid at all ever, I just don't see that as the case. 2) How do you have to be "Captain Cooperation" to want your team...

Yeah that confused me too. but then I always defer to the most charismatic in social settings, or if the most tactical (or the group as a whole) has a sound battle strategy that I can buy in to I'll defer to that in combat. If not I'll do whatever seems best to me. I KNOW if we have a warlord I...

And if he does things to or with your character you don't like you have the same options you do with the player that stabs you in the back, poisons you, leaves you for dead, or turns on you when you get to the BBEG. Or heck the same choices you have with any group that has a member you don't...