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I never said that a dungeon crawl and a sandbox are the same. No, I'm talking about the game that people play at the table. Not the game system. The actual game being played. GM's design and construct all manner of things to actually play the game. If they don't, then there is no game. You...

Yes, this is all accurate. I don't think that it generally delivers what is promised. I do think there is more freedom for the players than there would be in say an Adventure Path. But I don't think that it is the epitome of player agency that it is often cited as. I think it is still very GM...

:unsure:

So what? in Savage World, initiative is based on a card draw. In Mothership, it’s based on a speed roll. It’s that simple. No need to even mention other games or means of establishing initiative. We can just mention the way these two games do it, and then discuss what we consider the...

Yes you are. You make normative statements all the time about “how most games work” and “what most games include”. You present your very traditional ideas as the norm and anything else as some kind of exception to the norm. Rather than just two approaches to RPGs that are equally valid. To be...

Yes… I haven’t really been talking about system. I’ve been specifically talking about gameplay or the game. Whatever the system may be, when you design NPCs and locations and other elements, you have to consider the game. How you do so may vary depending on system, but that hasn’t been what...

And that’s not what you’re doing? Riiiight. Also… of the two of us, there is one who very clearly has a preferred playstyle. It ain’t me. If so, then you’re failing to account for context in your definition. As has been said, if sitting down to play one of the classic game modules is...

I think you’re missing what I’m saying. When you design an area… a town that’s meant to be part of a sandbox, let’s say… you are thinking about the fictional elements of the town. Like the leadership… is it a mayor or a council, or something else? What’s the major occupation or industry of the...

None of what you said contradicts what I said. And also… I am not saying that GM’s prep is a bad thing in any way. To go back to my recent Mothership campaign which is a sandbox in exactly the way you’re describing… I prepared material (some was material I bought in the form of modules) and...

But whatever system you choose, when you’re running a sandbox, you still should consider the game. I don’t know who you mean by “them”. I also don’t think there’s universal consensus on exactly what constitutes a railroad, as the many threads on the topic make clear. Your ideas on the...

I think this is an interesting thought. I think that what many are citing as sandbox play, while not a railroad in the typical sense because it allows for some amount of freedom for what to engage with, is similar to a railroad in that both types of play are vehicles for the GM’s prep.

Interesting hearing that from someone who seems to have experience with only one kind of game. Because it may not be railroading them to so so? As has since been elaborated upon in subsequent posts. I don’t think you’re considering all factors or possibilities here. I don’t see how or why...

It depends on the game and what the goal of play’s meant to be about. It also may depend on when and how whatever idea the GM has comes up. I don’t think the GM having an idea that they want to see in play is the same as railroading. I mean, it could lead to that, sure, but it doesn’t have to...

Perhaps. But isn’t wanting them to go a specific route kind of leaning in that direction anyway? Like if that’s what a GM wants to do, then just do it.

I think the point is more that IF the GM wants the players to do a specific thing or go a specific way, why not just be open about that? Why be coy about it? The obvious reason seems to be because the GM wants them to think they can do whatever they like, but really wants them to do something...

To clarify a bit… my point was indeed more about combat rules versus social rules. I really don’t want to get sidetracked in the discussion about trust. We use rules in combat because the outcome is uncertain. The complexity of said rules are a matter of preference. But the purpose of the rules...

No, the preferences don’t affect play. If we both play the same game, our preferences don’t matter. Catering to one preference or the other will affect play. Gaming the system vs. the environment… I’m not really sure what you mean here. There is no environment. So is it gaming the system vs...

Wanting to remain as in character as possible is an aesthetic preference. Not caring to separate player knowledge from character knowledge is also an aesthetic preference. I am evaluating agency as it applies to a player playing a game. That is the relevant form of agency to use here. And...

I don't have a peculiar definition of agency nor am I undermining any one's preferences. People can like whatever they like and that's great. I myself play different kinds of games to get different kinds of experiences. I don't consider any of them better than the other. I may have preferences...

I would say that the vague descriptor gives the player the possibility of flat out getting it wrong, not the observer. If we're using a system with a DC, the possibility of getting it wrong is determined by the dice and the DC. Not giving a reliable DC? All it does is under-inform the player...