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If that choice, however uninformed, has consequences (you went left and therefore the townsfolk were sacrificed), how is that not a meaningful choice? That choice had great meaning. The players just don't know how meaningful it is.

I think that's probably true. Well, that's true, obviously. But they, as players, might be subconsciously processing queues or patterns that I give as GM, and responding to that (thus a "gut instinct" or something). I pretty much agree. Well, I use dice to determine things, too, so I wouldn't...

Okay, we'll proceed with that in mind for now. A critical element, yes. And the players don't even need to have an inkling one way or another. Why would that matter in a discussion of illusionsim or railroading? Whether or not players are aware of those techniques are completely independent of...

Context matters here. Is it something like a a Search or Perception check initiated by the players? An "evens they find it, odds they don't" initiated by the GM? What led to this 50% chance? Why might it not be visited again (is it more natural... if you go either direction, the other fades...

You're at where I was at earlier. As far as I can tell, this isn't "illusionism" as some here define it (I would define it along the lines you do), since the players never make an informed choice on left vs. right, and thus cannot be mislead in any way. As far as I can tell, in the eyes of some...

Right, I agree that this is the way I'm used to "reskinning" being used. Right, this is the part with potential for abuse I was commenting on when EzekielRaiden said the following: "There's also reskinning, which 4e explicitly encouraged on multiple occasions; there was even a Dragon article...

I agree that it's almost entirely a social contract issue. I'm just curious what people prefer, and what there thoughts are on what the 4e mechanics encourage. If you're saying "the GM makes the setting, the PCs build their characters however they want, and can insert them into the setting...

So generally... "GM judgement call; based on what the GM things is fun for the group, anything goes"? I think that quests were a good example of ways that the GM can have strong influence over PCs. And probably picking out magic items. I'm sure there are other things, but I'm curious what the...

That's basically true, but I'm more interested in what the mechanics encourage themselves. I'm not solely interested in that (I think it's interesting they had stuff on wishlists, for example), but in regard to 4e, I think what the mechanics encourage (or don't fight against) is more...

That kinda makes me want to ask, in people's experience, how much influence should the GM have over player characters? Like, are magic pools that either add +2 Strength or reduce it by 2 acceptable (since the PC gets to choose to drink it or not)? Are magic items? Vetoing PC back story? Etc. To...

This is the main thing for me. At first, looking through items was a lot of fun for me. What fits with their character concept? What would the character appreciate? What item could turn steer the game into interesting directions (like with artifacts)? These were cool at first. But then it...

I just want to pipe in here to say that I have had a lot of fun with 4e, despite the things I don't prefer about it (it's not great with player-empowerment, prep time is too much for me, and the item treadmill is dreadful after a while). But I have had a lot of fun with it, and so have my...

Aaaaaaand we've reached a CAGI discussion. GG, folks. I don't think The Incredible Hulk necessarily passes my minimum threshold for process-sim -if it's used for superheroes and not fantasy. Because that's my preference. I used to run Mutants and Mastermind one-shots, and have since swapped to...

I keep track of time for a ton of reasons. How long it takes to get from one place to another (for armies, riders, information to spread, etc.), seasons (and thus weather), time of year (the players have already had to react to a ritual that was mechanically going to be tied to the winter...

I somehow feel like this quote might embody the deep divide in the ongoing conversation. I might be wrong, but I know that my mind rejected that assertion hard when I read it just now.

Um. I think 4e is still obviously limited in the types of flavor it allows. Which, presumably, is what it wants to do (that's what most non-point-buy, non-toolbox games want to do). It limits what you can do, what you can use, etc., rather than leaving it up to you. For example, my RPG has no...

I agree. I had to completely scrap Craft as it stood. Craft time based on GP value? GP value based on usefulness, rather than rarity or complexity? It just wasn't good, in my opinion. So, I divided Craft by broad materials, rather than jobs (that's all Profession now). So, you might have Craft...

In the future, you can use this spoiler tag: Enter text You just "[ sblock] enter text [/sblock]" and it should work for you :) Right. They've just eliminated nearly all forms of magic and races (and left you with Wizard and dwarf). Now, 4e when I've played it has had a very respectable number...

I guess it's probably true that not all rules set limits, but I have a hard time coming up with them. They set how you win (there are no other ways to win), what you can do (all the things you can't do), how to judge things in case of a tie (ruling out all other methods), etc. Rules set...

Thanks for the smile :) I think he does, too, but I feel like I got something out of it that you and pemerton didn't. I think that the former would apply to scene-framing and the right vs left scenario, too, even in Story Now. It's still illusionism in that the players are presented with a...