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What?! You didn't enjoy getting most of the way through making a Traveler character only to have it die before it was even finished being made? @pemerton is that little gem in the more current versions?

I haven't. I've said it doesn't work for me, because I prep stuff and it would end up with an absurdity if I did it.

This is true. It really depends on the system. In default D&D, the skill is Open Locks, not Open Locks and Avoid Bad Stuff. The roll is only to see if you open the lock or not, so everything else is unconnected. Something always happens, even it's just a failure to accomplish your goal...

I didn't make up the example, and I get that it's a bad one since the cook would almost surely not be in the kitchen, but it's the one that was brought up and is being discussed.

For literally at least the dozenth time, nobody is saying that other variations are wrong. :rolleyes: Sure. LOTS of cook are up at midnight to 2am sitting around the kitchen after cooking dinner and before getting up at 4am to get ready to make breakfast. They're doing that constantly.

You aren't reading to understand, just to respond. Try reading to understand. If your party is going through the forest, wandering monster rolls happen at specific intervals. Let's just say 2pm since I don't want to look it up. If the roll indicates an encounter, it will be where at the...

That is true. In my experience, though, players rarely leave the road to go into the more dangerous wilderness without some sort of incentive. In all likelihood, they'd have gone down one path or the other unless told that the ogre frequents both roads.

Especially since if they are forewarned about the two paths like that, they might opt to go off trail to avoid both locations. Foreknowledge alters the situation and doesn't keep it to the two paths.

It's not gamist. It's simulationist. If there's a bear over there in the woods, that's where it is at regardless of what anyone succeeds or fails at. It also didn't just appear there in an improvised moment. Advance prep is part of simulating a more realistic environment where things are set...

Whereas I don't mind if I prep some stuff and the group uses a teleport scroll that I forgot they had to bypass a chunk of it. As long as we are all having fun, that's the important part to me.

It's railroading. The players choices are invalidated and no matter where they go or what they choose, they will encounter that ogre. Part of being a traditional DM is having prep that doesn't get used.

This is illusionism, which is a form of railroading. It completely negates player choice. To me, it's the worst form of railroading as it is harder to see than the blatant, "No, you can't do that, you have to do this instead." I don't like any method where the ogre's location is rolled after...

I've been in those situations several times over the decades. They're pretty rare. That said, 100% of the time the DMs told us, if you are still here in X rounds, your character will die. If the DM will put PCs into positions like that and not inform the players of the time limit, that needs...

Maybe I'm not understanding then. The example I gave was of an unknown time limit that could(not would) render all those efforts null. I won't use the term meaningless, because it can still very much have meaning. Sure, it can be disappointing to fail. But disappointment doesn't mean that...

Nobody is saying or implying that from my side of things. And nobody has shown(or can show) the position my side is taking on encounters and die rolls to be without merit. In fact, what you just said about our arguments being without merit is you saying that we over here are playing the game...

I had to expand upon it way upthread since just having cook in kitchen didn't give enough detail. So for my posts, coming from my playstyle, I established more in order for the explanations of how and why I do things to make more sense.

Oh, I appreciate from a technical standpoint a lot of the player facing techniques. They aren't necessarily my cup of tea to run or play in, but that doesn't mean that I can't appreciate them. That's why I try to genuinely understand where the other side is coming from, instead of dismissing...

If you run a pre-established setting, much of the pre-establishment has been done for you. The same with pre-written adventures like say, Against the Giants or something like that. :P I used to prepare a lot in advance. These days due to life, I can only prepare some stuff and use a published...

It's not "where the PCs are" It's in the particular spot in the forest that the 2pm wandering monster roll would happen. I just roll it in advance for a better player experience. If they somehow move away from the forest and encounters shouldn't be rolled a 2pm and/or shouldn't be rolled on...

Yes it is optional. In both 5e and 5.5e. The default is not to run skill checks that way. The RULE is in the PHB and it says nothing about fail forward or success with a cost. The DMG option says... "As a DM, you have a variety of flourishes and approaches you can take when adjudicating...