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Besides die.com, it also rhymes with "they left out the bard! WHY??" dot com, although it has significantly fewer syllables. I just got a confirmation email that my order has been shipped.

I'm one of the "4-ons" who still loves 3.5. I'd have no problem playing it for years to come. Of course, I've already introduced some 4e houserules, that have worked really well so far. So I guess I'm playing something like 3.64.

Time is definitely abstract in D&D. Consider 20 people in a combat round: person 2 doesn't start his turn until he has total knowledge of how person 1's turn worked out. Person 3 has total knowledge of person 2's turn, and so on until person 20. And all in 6 seconds! This abstraction makes D&D...

Really? I hope that's just a rumor. It sounds like an unnecessarily tight binding between class and race. Edit: Ah, not from 4e.

It is funny that rooting around in your backpack doesn't provoke. However, 3e had all those items like the handy haversack, which everyone got as soon as possible, and I guess I never missed the tactical complexity added by AoO's for retrieving stored items.

Oops, I totally snarked on your post, Lizard. It's actually a very interesting thought. I apologize.

Why is this in the 4e forum? And why does the thread title have "in 4e" in it?

I bet when the villains get together with their minions to play D&D, the PCs can't get crits :D

Ooh, deconstructionism! The author's intent is irrelevant and unknowable.

You don't think it would be exciting to have a big, challenging battle against hordes of opponents? Obviously it wouldn't be fun to roll a bunch of dice if there's no chance of failure. It would be a waste of everyone's time. My group would get impatient and say, "OK, what happens after we...

OK, then you'll agree that minions are not a bad ruleset because I can give the minions 50 hit points? :D Are we discussing RAW or not? Is the pro-minion side allowed to make up crazy nonlegal stuff too?

Nah, then he'd make a bunch of short, koan-like posts - maybe squeezing in a hidden meaning or two ;)

Also, Lizard, can you explain your poor-deluded-fools-at-gencon analogy? As far as I can tell, there's not a pin of difference between the strongly pro-3e and strongly pro-4e folks, as far as logic and rhetoric go. We all chose a position based on gut feeling, and are rationalizing our feeling...

Saying that you can house-rule 3e to have 4e-style minions is correct. You could use Shadowrun rules in 3.5 too. That doesn't say anything substantive about 3e, 4e, or Shadowrun, though.

That's a good question. I have a feeling the DMG3, for instance, might feel "optional" to a lot more people than the PHB3 and the MM3 (even besides the fact that it is for DMs only). It will be interesting to see what they do with it.

OK, Voss, we'll agree to differ about the nature of hit points and game rules generally, I guess. So here's my minion question: how often do you all think they should be used? When planning encounters, do you think they should be in 10% of encounters? 30%? 50%? more? I know it often depends...

Also, in 3.5, paper walls have 1 hp. I guarantee you that a small child can totally slice up a paper wall with a chocolate bar, a guitar pick, a fingernail, or a Magic card. Voss, since you assert that 1hp=1hp, do you assert that in 3.5, a small child can kill 20% of commoners by one hit with a...

I actually think that 3e had a lot of GOOD rules. I have no problem with 25% of commoners having the same number of hit points as a pane of glass. Most of the time, D&D 3.x rules lead to good gameplay - better than many more realistic systems. Sure, it breaks down catastrophically under any...

By your logic, 1/4 of all level 1 commoners (probably about 21% of the total population) in 3e are as hard to kill as a glass window. If Dennis the Menace hits 4 people with his slingshot during his career, he is probably a murderer. I feel like, by objecting to minions but accepting HP, you...

Stormtower, 100% agreement. 4e being good doesn't make 3e bad, and vice versa.