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Would you be willing to start another thread and post when you used a SC in WotBS, the SC goal, and failure/success parameters (I don't think the individual skills likely to be used, etc. are necessary)? I know I would be very interested.

Agreed. The rewards and penalties don't have to be earth shattering every time. And they should never be game ending. However, they do need to be personally meaningful for the PCs and the players. This also means the players can fail at a goal they care about. Failing at a goal can be great...

Morrus, I'm a big fan of skill challenges (although I prefer a looser Obsidian style execution). I'm also a big fan of WoTBS. However, 4e WoTBS skill challenges have frankly been pretty bad so far. It's not in the mechanical set up (skill uses, etc.) which is ok, but the reason they have been...

Given the buzz over Paizo's new adventure path that is reported to include some rules on ruling a kingdom, I dug out my old Birthright stuff. In the 90s I used the setting for a few normal adventures and liked it, but never really used the regent / domain system. For those of you that really...

Not entirely on topic, but I instituted this house rule for the Wizard's class feature because I think the existing spellbook is fairly useless. I could even see adding the utility swaping on the fly to it as well. ** Add Tomb of Readiness Implement Mastery and the effects of the Improved...

That's the whole point of this thread though. Maybe not all players feel the same way, but there are some of us who don't have a lot of fun if our actions don't have consequences and we spend time playing SC that have no real impact on the characters, the story, etc. The great games I've...

That's a great way to put it -- "emotional impact" should be a primary goal. Not to digress too much, but I like Obsidian for those reasons as well. No prescripted actions, you shoot for # of successes only so it encourages everyone to get involved, and for the most part I think the 3 round...

Given the other controllers that now exist (and the hybrid rules), I’ve been thinking about the Wizard’s class features. I think Wizards are certainly playable as is, but most of their shtick seems to come from their dailies. I’d like to make their class abilities more differentiated without...

So I'd say yes and no. Yes, I think avoiding a combat for the same XP (and it should be the same XP) does effect the story somewhat and is better than some of the bad examples we've been citing on this thread. But No, in that in the end win or lose the challenge it's just "another way to win"...

Yep, that's another vote for story related consequences I think. As you said, the default of the game is that you can keep going if you want to and you are expected to gain XP and level up. Story consequences are outside this framework, and thus can be real permanent consequences that don't...

Here's where I disagree. I feel like the mechanic is quite capable of creating tension and good scenes. BUT, only if the goal of the SC has real consequences. Sure, the PCs can find their way through the wilderness, but can they do it in 2 days less time than anyone has ever done before while...

This is exactly what I'm talking about. If the consequence is "you get lost in the mountains and have a bunch of random level appropriate encounters before finding you way" then you shouldn't do a SC. No meaningful consequences. The examples you give above are good "story consequences" I was...

I think this is getting close to the essence of what makes a good consequence. It's not just a different means to the same end, but something that the PCs feel permanently. Now, I don't think this has to be as world altering as your examples. But it does have to hurt a little. Harder combat...

So, I agree that Midgets hyperbole is extreme, and the consequence doesn't and probably shouldn't be as harsh as death since (at least in Obsidian) you are meant to fail a skill challenge around 30% of the time. But BenBrown, your example is the kind of consequence that, unless set up...

This is an area that I don’t think has gotten enough attention, even with the DMG2. A lot of the published skill challenges still seem to have problematic rewards and penalties. For instance, I see a lot of reliance on “fail and you enter combat” with the combat being a level appropriate...

Sounds like your players are jerks, or you haven't set player / DM expectations. If they are just jerks, find some other people. If not, then talk it out. I think a city can be large enough for a sandbox if everyone agrees, but it's not what I would expect if I was told "this is a sandbox...

Another bump. Anyone flesh WoTBS on Eberron out further?

Eyes of the Lich Queen (lots of SPOILERS) As I said in the post above, I thought this module did a great job of pacing and variety. Its flaws are the heavy handed character motivation (basically characters get magically cursed and have to lift the curse), lack of real choices (it’s straight up...

1. Pacing. This is the big one. As someone else said, there needs to be some kind of story between every 1-2 combat encounters (and even skill challenges). See my next post for my thoughts on Eyes of the Lich Queen, which I thought did this pretty well. 2. Exploration “encounters”. This is the...

Sure, these are player choices, but I wouldn't really call this a rich set decisions. In combat, the player gets to choose where to move, which power to use, who to target, whether to use certain limited resources (e.g., action points, healing surges), etc.