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<chuckle> Last meeting, our bard literally insulted a monster to death. So it can happen. :]

And what - specificly - does an enemy do that is "giving up"? If you "give up" on eating a huge ice cream cone, does that mean you lie down on the floor and let it melt on you? :D But this is all beside the point: An intimidated bloodied enemy doesn't have to surrender. It could just give up...

Hee, hee, hee! Uhm....if I said "original Skill Challenge mechanics", would that be enough of a hint? :D

When I first saw the Intimidate skill, I thought the 4e designers made a HUGE mistake. After all, we all know that twinking out a skill is easy to do: people did it all the time in 3.5e, especially with regard to ToB:Bo9S. ...but then I calmed down, and re-read the power. (...and even then, I...

Player tangent: I think I'll suggest our healers split up a bit, so they're not both easily hit by the same effect.

In reading over this thread again, this statement popped out at me again: As a long-time DM (1e, 2e, other games, 3.0e, 3,5e) it's always been the case that one PC can die, with a string of bad luck combined with a poor choice. The Bad Guy can get a few lucky rolls, or the player with the...

The newbie player sure thought so. The grizzled veterans (this was 3.0e) kept saying: "That doesn't work". So, of course, I made it work. :)

Again, you probably don't want to bring (supposed) physics or physical chemistry into this. I'm not sure anyone has said "add vulnerability to everything that has resistance". But to the real point: Why would more vulnerabilities be "bad for the game"? Let's posit that a few more monsters gain...

Good point, DrSpunj. I wonder what responses we would get if we asked all the players: "Do you think death is a possibility in DrSpunj's 4e game?", "How often has at least one PC been close to death in our game?", and "Should the likelihood of death in DrSpunj's game be increased, decreased...

...and even that might be too broad. That is to say "Who gets to define what's most fun for the group?" In our group, I think the DM has a different perspective on this than us players do. :heh:

Hmmmm. Here's that "DM perception" thing again. In DrSpunj's excellent game, when a PC goes down no other player says "Gee, we don't have to worry about the downed PC, 'cuz he has a few death saves yet to make". Not one person around that table. No one. Dying PCs are already a "high...

Yep! Ooooooo....you almost had it. Oh well. ;) Are you saying that as the players gain levels, it should be harder to hit their opponents, even under optimal conditions?

...at 5th level. Not Paragon, Not Epic: 5th level, once per day, for the entire combat. Smells a bit fishy, eh?

Oh, you sooooooooo don't want to go there. Please, let's not bring (mistaken) chemical or physics notions into a gaming argument. Only bad things happen. :)

As an aside: If the DM keeps telling the players "It's really hard to die in 4e", then they start to feel that way too, and some of the fun drains away. If the DM plays his cards a little closer to his/her chest, things feel dangerous - and fun - and no one but the DM feels the difference...

Good posts so far. For my part: "Is character death acceptable in 4e?" Sure! But: it's just not going to happen like it did in earlier editions of D&D. Remember that standard D&D tradition of the death trap? Removed. "Save or die" powers? Removed. How about massive crit damage? Removed...

My group(s) have also not used it....it did "just come out" aftre all...and no one in any of my groups are over 4th level. :( (What's up wit' that?) But as soon as a wizard in one of my groups gets to 5th level, you can bet yer bottom dollar that I'll strongly suggest this Daily. If I get any...

I agree: This is a (good) separate topic. Fork it.

Exactly, kilpatds. We really were right there at the edge of TPK-land. We were just able to pull it back from the brink with a little luck and all of our resources.

Okey-dokey. As should be obvious, I think 55% (at all levels) is a minimum. I also think that with help from multiple party members and optimal positioning, it should never be over ~80% (at all levels). As a game designer, you have a very narrow path to walk...and you should be *very*...