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I don't think the argument is that the cleric is an overall better controller than the wizard. Just that there are multiple examples where the clerics spells at certain levels come either to close or exceed the wizard in his role. It would be like if the wizard had a level 2 daily called cure...

The thing is since AoE damage is one of the controllers niches it should not be balanced or competitive. The controllers AoE should be clearly superior with some other classes being able to come in with a not-sucky in comparison second.

What people can do to manipulate a system and wreck another's suspension of disbelief doesn't mean much to me. What the game is at its core without without some rules tweaker is what matters. And for me the once a day non-magical abilities are a much larger jarring effect than 3e was on its...

Yeah, but to some its not 5 martinis or 6. Its slightly tipsy and need to wait a while before driving with 3e. And so drunk you have to crawl up stairs and end up peeing yourself because you can't work your zipper, or button, with 4e.

I was indifferent in the sense that I like a lot of the core concepts, but I think they failed in the actual execution of the concepts. Which is exactly how I feel about 4e Shadowrun. i play 4e shadowrun and have a good time, heck I play in a weekly and bi-weekly game of it. But hey I have...

I'd suspect you might see the necromancer in January in the undead supplement.

Maybe not. Not all fights need to be super challenging, and minion heavy fights might end absurdly quickly due to the large number of AoE every class seems to have. I can see good tactics getting the fighter through quite a few fights without the need for a daily and without using many healing...

I do not think they intended for there to be penalties. The caught with your pants down or armor off thing is cool and all but it hits warriors and other heavy armor wearers while not hurting the mages/thieves. This would seem to be counter to the design goal of everyone always being useful...

If I were to do that I'd go further and create a points system. Encounter powers cost 1 point dailies 2 or 3 etc, change learned abilities into giving a increased point pool to draw from etc. Dang, I want a mana system now.

Players are supposed to have fun. A good system will have at least a little flexibility in how people can have fun playing it.

It is magical sleep, poking snow white with a stick would not wake her up. Or another way to look at it is, its a daily, and saves favor the victim fairly heavily as is. Having the spell from a controller keep someone down even after damage does not seem that bad to me. But hey I want...

Yeah totally, one is at a 45 degree angle one isn't. And don' try to pick one up and turn it cause that would be cheatin, and you don't want to be low down dirty cheater do ya.

yeah that is what I'd take as a wizard as well. I was boggled that it was not on the wizard class list. Control effects lose a lot of there luster if the enemies are already on top of you before you cast spells, which makes perception a key skill for a controllers role. Eladrin education...

Having over a million is nice but 31,000 still is a lot of money then. And besides at level 24 they are expected to be worth more than a million, not have over a million GP. They would likely have around 400,000 in non essential items or more fluid GP. A lot of that will go to the non-core 3...

True, per round bashing the door down would be louder. But you can guarantee you will succeed by forcing it, with knock you can still roll sucky. With it being 10 minutes the only way the ritual would not be discovered is if it was unguarded, in which case you could probably just force the...

A lot of real world organizations have a lot more money than the PCs will ever have. Also I am not so sure they would use it, if they could not record it and have a team of video experts go over the recording a million times looking for clues. 30 seconds when the guy just might be in a...

Neither scrying or teleport wrecked any plots in my games, in fact they were plot starters or extenders sometimes. And even if they were plot destroyers in other peoples games, making the cost 31,00GP and the effect a totally sucky 30 seconds after a long ritual makes them totally useless in...

And in all cases it would be cheaper, faster, and just as quiet to use force to get past the door or gate.

Basically only sleep actually does any disabling for the controller, or maybe legions hold. Other than that the controller does crappy damage to an an area with some minor inconvenience effect attached. Which is irrelevant to the point I was making. The post I was quoting, said basically...

The only people picking a fight here are people like you. No one has disagreed with what the writers intended for this rule. Some have pointed out that a literal interpretation without intent can allow this. If you do not want to get into a RAW discussion then don't. Insulting those who are...