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I must spread some experience around, yadda yadda.

Stop cussing, it ain't morel.

I'm hoping for a Lords of Madness book for 4E, gods willing. :) Also, sure, I'll go vote for these Bullywugs...but I better get some kind of gift basket from the Committee. And it better not smell like a freakin' swamp.

Dang, just a fluff preview from Divine Power. My new Invoker demands CRUNCH! :rant:

These differences still end up being the same thing, though: certain characters can do a certain amount of things in a day. Wizard spell slots compared to Barbarian daily rages, for example, or Paladin smites, Cleric's turn undead... Those're some obvious examples from 3E, though, and the...

Seconded. Regardless of edition, if the PCs challenge something insanely difficult for them, they'll have to be as creative and cunning as all heck to get themselves out of the situation. The whole grind thing, sure, that's an issue. But honestly, that's just plenty of rounds where the DM can...

Opinions aren't facts. Sounds like something a 3PP should jump on. Goodman Games did something for Dragonborn already, right? Bringing back some of the old school flavor of Tieflings should be a piece of cake.

Well, they do have the lowest hit dice. They have 1d1. ;)

You can say that again! Still though, with the whole verisimilitude thing...verisimilitude is subjective, right? So until we can find an objective way of measuring it, saying that 4E (or ANY system) is devoid of the v-word can only be a matter of opinion. I think it's a strength of the D&D...

"What're you doing in that cabinet?" "I'm getting some ITS forms. Doing some work at home tonight." One of my groups uses Paizo's board, which works well. Another group has moved to using white boards and dry-erase markers, which have the benefit of being bigger and able to track more...

Fair enough. In the editions of D&D I've played, every system has been unrealistic. (shrug) YMMV, of course!

Because despite the heated disagreements in this thread, I've had an awesome time with the discussion. Learned things, presented cases, discussed rules...pretty much what ENworld is all about. Plus, this thread has flirted close to being an Edition War, but hasn't yet, and (as far as I know)...

That could be. And I'll admit that I don't have much experience with realistic heroic fantasy systems. I couldn't even name any, really.

A Werewolf Bard, huh? Pick up an old World of Darkness book, Werewolf: The Apocalypse. Play a Galliard. ;) All joking aside (and honestly, W:A is a pretty fun game), I'd second the motion to try both systems, if you can. Both 3E (in whatever form) and 4E are excellent systems that allow...

Holy crap, this thread is still going. I'm almost rubbing my hands with glee. Have we answered the OP's question yet? I'd have to say that since this thread has been going for over 20 pages, it's safe to assume that magic is equally important to both 3E and 4E. ;) The ugliness comes from...

Ha! I needed a laugh, thanks. :)

Because boardgames are bad, right? Can't have 'em influencing D&D, even though they've been doing that since...gosh, years now. C'mon now. It's D&D. It's always been an abstract game about combating monsters. I could list off all the abstractions of the previous edition I'm familiar with...

Good call. I stopped paying attention to Image a while ago, forgotten how they work. I'm guessing Invincible is still awesome, though. :)

D&D rules have always been abstract. The rules in 4E are just abstract as 3.0 and 3.5, in my experience. Also, I enjoy the boardgame influence on 4E combat. REALLY enjoy it. Are boardgames bad? I didn't know they were, you know, bad.

I'd love to see GR get their hands on Marvel or DC...I don't think they will, though. Or they might only get access to part of the IP...maybe DC's Vertigo line? More on the comics front, could be: Image ABC (League of Extraordinary Gentlemen d20, booyah) Heck, any number of established...