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I think you have hit upon something important here. What matters or at least what should matter to Paizo is how their sales look. If 2e and SF have sales that allow them to continue as a company that is what really matters. Comparisons to other companies are just fun for us. Now if Paizo...

This is why I hate the TTRPG sales metrics. :D ICV2 we polled a bunch of game stores. Amazon here is a rank that might change daily and is only really nice for comparison.

So maybe we are just discussing around each other and meaning the same thing. I think for the most part we agree, other than I am not sure if they moved the needle or not. And like you said earlier we probably won't really know for like another year. Otherwise I think we are definitely on the...

I just don't have enough information to make a call on is it successful or not. Although the fact that Paizo continues to hire more people looks that they are doing well enough. It looks like they have the 2nd best selling TTRPG product right now. I would have said it would be interesting to see...

I mean Paizo sales have always had a big black hole that is their direct sales. As far as I know those aren't reported anywhere and probably never will be. Applies to anything of their's that is available on their website.

I say only Paizo, because there online sales are private, so they are the only one that has the whole picture.

But when all we have is one online retailer, who may of may not have been shipping the product for the last several weeks it doesn't give me much confidence that that tells us anything real. I have seen anecdotally about as many people saying I won't ever play PF2 as I have seen I am waiting for...

Most 3PP have moved to 5e. And who can blame them the market there is currently much bigger. Most of what I am seeing for PF1 or 2 3PP support is 5e products that also have PF rules.

Everything is grasping at straws though. We know there is a vocal group of PF 1 players that don't like it, but no way to know how big they are. We have Amazon sales that are vague at best all we know for sure there is that it is the number one not 5e TTRPG game (which I don't think tells us...

Mostly I just mention it isn't supposed to happen, even if PF 2 was the greatest game ever, with the current 5e success they wouldn't have comparable numbers this time around. Definitely agree that next Summer is really when we are going to know something. What they announce at PaizoCon will...

I do feel like the APG release is going to be the next real telling point for 2e. That was really the turning point for PF1 and it could really be the same for PF2. Not that it will catch 5e that isn't happening, but where it establishes itself.

That was announced, before Lisa's announcement that they were planning to stay on schedule. I am wondering if that being pushed back has to do with Wizkids City of Lost Omens miniature line also being pushed back (not officially announced, but seems likely).

Actually as I look through the top 100 I notice that there are a large number of books that are teaching aids for children on the list now. So panicked parents trying to find something for their kids to do well they are out of school might be at least part of the cause.

When I said Hardcovers I was referring to finishing of printing the paperback reprints for the remaining Hardcovers, it was a bit unclear. I expect we will see all of the hardcovers become paperbacks, the chance of reprints of those paperbacks once they sell out is probably pretty slim (there...

There is a big difference between we are going to finish printing as many of the PF1e hardcovers as there is demand for. And we are going to reprint those books. I expect we won't see reprints of the paperbacks once they sell out.

It is a tricky thing to look at percentages without backing numbers. If you look at 5e at the same time in it's life cycle, it was at 20% with about 5201 games (25,925 games total). The last report that we have numbers for, Q1 2018, has D&D 5e at 60% with 76833 games (126,213 games total). PF 1...

I was referring the bankruptcy, Vampire was at it's biggest and even had the TV show at the time. TSR wasn't producing any new product. It had to have gotten real close. I expect if it had gone on much longer they would have.

Sounds about what I remembered. I give Paizo credit for actually passing D&D no matter what the circumstances, especially since they were still a few last 4e products to release (but the end was coming and everyone knew). But I will always be surprised White Wolf didn't grab number one in early 1997

I don't believe they ever quite did, do you have a reference to that?

And I always like to note Paizo only passed D&D when it was already known that 4e was ending production. Paizo still should get credit as the only company to ever do that. No one had ever before, even when TSR went bankrupt and didn't print a product for 6 months. But the idea that anyone will...