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Yea. My supposition is that without rigorous protocols around the timing of checking OR timestamps for the test AND some way to translate measurements taken at a different time of day into a measurement at a standard time then while it’s interesting data, it’s enough to draw hard conclusions on...

As an aside, this follows the general flow of most discussions I see here. When things go bad they go really bad. Rebuttal - but in most cases those bad things won’t occur and there’s a lot of benefit when things don’t go to hell. Counter rebuttal - but it doesn’t matter how often they go...

It’s more like the head chef told their helper exactly what to prepare and how to prepare it. Does the head chef get the credit or the helper for following his instructions?

If we can accept that a player can roleplay a character that doesn't always make the correct tactical or strategic choice and count that as playing the game as a game (likely due to viewing those roleplay restrictions on choices as part of the game itself), then I'm not sure why one couldn't do...

Okay. Then to me that would be an additional requirement in the definition of narrativist than rising action. Especially if we are staying close to the literary meaning of rising action. At least I now know more about what it means to you. Yes, but it's never said a piece of literature or...

Apparently it's not been very well defined ;) .. ala the 15k current thread.

So part of it is that people bring up those single bold line directives into discussions where others don’t have that additional context. There’s no wonder those conversations go badly.

I’m saying everyone is in agreement on that. No one thinks fail forward is about getting the characters to take risks? Sorry for the lack of clarity in my previous post, it was made late when I should have been asleep.

I wasn’t. I was analogizing ‘example of’ and ‘part of’ since you specifically declared you didn’t understand what I meant by them. Well, it seems you do have understanding of the difference between what I mean by ‘part of’ and ‘example of’. Component is good synonym for what I meant. But...

I don’t agree that the intent of fail forward is to get the characters to take risks.

For example, an engine is not an example of a car but it is part of a car. Does this clear that part up?

Where is this projection coming from? Or am I mistaken and someone did say that? If so prove me wrong. Quote one person here who has said anything remotely close to that? Everyone on this thread has went to great lengths to say this is just our preference and we are happy there are RPGs that...

Note: your definition above leaves off nearly all the specific implementations of it in games like AW or burning wheel. The confusion being referenced is this conversational shift between the general notion of fail forward to any specific implementation of it. Of particular note is that when...

Just to be clear. I'm challenging your categorization of things based solely on the definition you provided. Let's be precise here. I do not say that managing logistics and inventory by itself can be an example of rising action or rising conflict. I say that it can be a part of rising action...

My understanding of fail forward as applied to d&d is as a technique where at least some failures (maybe sometimes all) become successes with a complication. So in d&d if you rolled a failure on your check to pick the lock, then you actually pick the lock and some complication occurs, be it...

I can't tell if this is just being pedantic or something else. Perhaps an example will help illuminate. Attack rolls in D&D. Are they representational? I say they are. What are your thoughts?

You do realize you used the term first to define narrativist? You do realize I'm asking questions so I can understand what you mean by the term? I mean what conclusion should I be drawing from you saying you don't know what I mean by it when we both know I'm asking questions to understand what...

Right. The ‘not boring’ stems from other areas than action resolution. It comes from the setting/situation in your play.

Well, I think you view them that way. I think some other proponents of them may view them as more gamist since their resolution mechanics are at least somewhat less DM dependent (at least from the descriptions of AW I've seen). At least that's the vibes I've gotten. Could very well be mistaken.

I think it's both trivial and pedantic. More importantly I think all of these things can be better explained by different phenomena. IMO. Players ask so many questions because there is an objective world that exists and the GM's words are the only true source of information on that. There's...