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I'll skip down to this point. The 3E skill points vs 4E skill points is not my defining character of "Lore", it is one reference point. (I believe I stated as much upthread). You or I or VB or S'mon or anyone (but especially you, no offense :) does not get to decide or justify that high level...

Well, you'll have to talk to them about it then. I remember S'mon stating that he tended to play 4E in a simulationist way, but I don't know the post # or exact wording. I don't think that VB is confused. At the end of the day, if you haven't understood anything I wrote since the "Legends" and...

Kamakazi Midget already addressed that. I addressed numerous times that I was talking about 5E.

But I answered pemerton's question and used that as a reference point. Easy there. I don't like people assuming that because I'm referrencing 4E, it means I'm criticizing 4E and not just using it as a reference towards 5E.

Ah, nitpicking, I missed you so much. That was used a reference for extrapolation. And pemerton addressed that designers knew about it.

Me too. "Different things" didn't apply to the definition of actor stance.

I would be very curious to know how many groups actually play this way, because I haven't heard of it being the norm at all IME. I have no strong opinion one way or another. I find it strange that some people look to real-life for justification, then pick and choose what they want to support...

Then we're talking about 2 entirely different things.

Yes, and I never say this again... this is NOT about 4E for me. I don't care about 4E, sorry, I view this a 5E thread. Please stop making this about what you think I want out of 4E.

Right. So giving 1/2 character level bonus to skill checks is like that d6 roll. If you fluff it to explain why EVERY PC gets better at EVERY skill check for whatever diverse reasons, then you've made it simultationist (which is what I understand is what some were attempting to do, at least on a...

That's true, but I feel it's "nitpicky" in the sense that, in actor stance, that distinction isn't relevant to the context. In 4E, I could choose subdual or lethal but I can't choose as player to not to know the outcome as thru the eyes of the PC. I'm not sure I understand the question or 0 hp...

A gamist rule is only simulating fiction if the player decides that there is an explanation that suffices for him/her. Otherwise, it's not simulationist. If you say 4E's simulation "makes perfect sense" and that there is "no trouble" in explaining what is happening, then all the power to you...

I assumed that everyone assumed/speculated that Mearls and then Montes articles are about 5E. How do you think it pertains to 4E? It talks about the basics and theoretical foundation of game design, and 4E is already designed. I'm sorry, but if it had been someone else, I probably would have at...

So brusque. Does that mean that this thread and D&D bodily functions are going to disappear into the annals of history?

Don't worry, I'm not, this is a 5E thread about the temperature of the rules, it's not about 4E. I was trying to discuss simulationist vs gamist assumptions in this context, and you came in and told me that this increasing ability to bash open doors was simulationist while on the other hand in...

Oh lord, I remember this now from that long debate with JamesonCourage, and he didn't agree with that either. How about this -- there is a significant percentage of RPers who prefer pre-4E to 4E, and do not agree with reskinning mechanics the way you've attributed. Furthermore, these gamers, or...

I'm getting confused. I can't justify how D&D simulates subdual damage in a case by case scenario, and I don't think D&D does it robustly. I was only responding to your post questioning and/or refuting that it was more difficult to knock out an opponent trying to kill you -- and overall I think...

In a gamist game IMO. In a simulationist game, what are these magics they are using? Why use a Str check if it's magic? Why not Arcane check? Does these magics work in an anti-magic field? Can it be dispelled? Can it be used for things other than bashing down doors?

Yes, there's a good chance that you will land a knocking blow to find that you've been stabbed which could well be modelled as an AoO. But in real life, if unarmed vs a opponent with a knife, you're in an extremely dangerous situation. You'll try to run away safely if you can. Otherwise, you'll...

Assuming you're trying to knock them out with a kick or sword hilt punch, I think it's risky. Bring fists into a knife fight, you will likely get cut.. badly. Bring fists into a sword fight is probably worst. You can try to use your sword to cripple instead of kill, but it still carries the risk...