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Ah, the general thing in 4e is that the AEDU classes could pillage some of the powers of the essentials classes-- for instance HOS provides Nethermancy and Necromancy as essentials Wizard options, but the powers themselves can be looted by the original Wizard as well. The Warlock options are...

Heroes of Shadow at least, was done in the essentials style, am I missing something?

In my case, especially with the actual setting being indistinct to enable customization, it led to reconcilatory fiction. Its not that some of it is really healing, and some of it is courage-- its that regaining your courage lets you draw out more of your vitality in the same way divine power...

I can speak to this a bit, the essentials classes worked well around the table and were fun as a supplemental style built on the 4e framework, the dislike was predicated on the (accurate) feeling that they weren't going to go back to publishing AEDU stuff afterward.

I think I might be reading you in better faith than you're reading you in, both of the posts at the top of this thread come on very strongly that applying indie techniques to traditional modes of play and goals is the defining feature of Neo-Trad, and what I know of example games (4e for...

You know reading the OP back over: Technically, by this definition, applying these techniques to what @kenada is talking about would be Neotrad. edit: This post initially featured the wrong user, sorry, its early where I am.

You only need one possible GM in a group who takes the fun of other people seriously, and by definition, groups self-select GMs who perform that role based on their willingness to run a game. It doesn't always work, but I'd be confused how it's possible to come to the conclusion that the...

Largely, from experience, more points of failure, the group has to retain their consensus in the face of a possible escalation of conflict. Some people will do damn near anything to avert conflict, including a sudden pivot to a full appeasement strategy. The GM role has a useful culture around...

Which is part of the appeal, in a way, it gives someone the right to move on, on behalf of the whole-- if I start narrating and literally ignore someone's input, there's nothing they can do about it. Process tends to be the bugbear, because its nonspecific-- the group could vote, the gold...

I think at this point we're contemplating a spectrum of symmetricality as suggested by @Thomas Shey in their discussion of utilizing meta currencies to gain authorship in super hero games, the word equal in the quoted section is an overstatement, but when read as 'a greater degree of equality'...

This, another thing that I've noticed is that trust for something like this doesn't really come down to good faith and bad faith, it usually comes down to competing visions, or competing notions of their own responsibility to anyone else. People aren't making active choices not to agree on...

I agree with your point of view on narrower goals, the only distinction between us is that I don't think 5e executes well on its breadth as well as other systems I've played (including say, previous editions of the same game) I was chiming in to back up the idea that the game's breadth isn't the...

Its cool that its working for you! We must have very different tables, mine doesn't have the same apathy for crafting and downtime that you expressed in your earlier post, and my players push the encounters much harder than Oofta's seem to based on their description of near-TPKs, and we weren't...

Was never my experience, my PCs were annihilating creatures 10 CR above their level to the extent that we were tripling HP pools, we must have very different tables. But none of that was really my point, my point was 5e failing to do something isn't actually a commentary on whether or not it...

Sure, getting there was always a pretty big cognitive load, but it is objectively true that it can be made to happen.

Admittedly, one piece of input reading this thread I want to give, is that 5e's failures of execution aren't failures of structure or taxonomy. So for instance, 5e might have trouble making player characters feel like they're in danger, not because it needs to be a narrower system, but because...

Thats the official Paizo map from the beginner box.

Number 1 is a rat encounter IIRC, also the first encounter new players doing the beginner box in pathfinder 2e will ever experience, though its under a fishery rather than a tavern, sourced from google images, lol, although i see from the watermark this is just from someone's official pdf or...

One consideration of Neotrad Design I thought about reading @pemerton above, is that 4e does contain an awful lot of advice for player engagement in collaborative worldbuilding and such, much of which is further intertwined with it's conception of backstory-driven campaigns, and leaves the door...