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Sure. But we are talking about skill checks where one guy can't get a success for the entire party. It is a question of what you would rather have. Lets say you take the 13, and as a result you find one obstacle trivial, but then you are stuck with a +0 on the check for the skill you didn't take...

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the skill system in 3E was perfect. I was just saying in a typical game, diversifying is fine and can be beneficial. Most games of 3E I played in peaked at level 10, because after that much of the system starts to fall apart. I do agree many of the numbers...

1) The math isn't unsound. It is campaign and expectation dependent. 2) You have been insulting. I suggest you re-read your own posts. They are clearly meant to antagonize and insult. There is a difference between saying "that math doesn't look right to me" (which wouldn't have bothered me)...

Spells are not always an option. Charming the guard to get information is usually a back up plan, since people don't like having spells cast on them. Sure. But Rondo can't always do that. It depends on the obstacle. And you still have to make a check even if you are using rope. If he throws...

Not at all. Please show me where I have been angry because someone disagreed with my position. You like the 4E skill system, and thats fine. I don't think it makes you wrong. We just disagree on preferences. And the only time I have expressed anything approaching "heat" is when you have insulted...

I understand, and I am not a fan of system trashing, since I understand the difficulties of designing a game that appeals to everyone. But the subject of the thread was what 4E has difficulty handling. I have tried to give my opinion of 4E without saying everyone should agree with it. There is...

This is a good point. I am definitely more on the simulationist side of things.

I never said it was a necessity. I just said someone released it. My guess is it didn't do terribly well. But I haven't checked any reviews or numbers. Numbers don't really matter though. If a few gamers enjoy it, that is their right. Why does it matter so much that others might take a...

And for dungeon delves, what you are saying is mostly correct. Though I would much rather spread out and increase my chances of not falling down a cliff or getting stuck halfway up the cliff. Since Rondo's jump skill won't really impact my leap over the chasm. But most of what I said applied to...

Wizards didn't release one, but I do remember an experts book being released by a third party.

Here I do agree. Non rogue classes should have been given more skill points. But the problem isn't the ranking system. It is not having enough points to do what you want.

When you diversify you are not going to be better than Leopold at stealth. If you want to be the best at stealth, that will have to be something your character focuses on and maximized. You are creating a broad range of competencies that will allow you to shine in a number of circumstance. You...

A good game should balance both. Where we may split is they are much more interested in the effectiveness of the party as a group (which does make sense in things like dungeon delves), and I am giving more weight to effectiveness of individual PCs (which makes sense in city adventures). Also...

-Can you please refrain from insults and sarcasm. This is the last time I am going to ask. All I am doing is telling you how I enjoy the game, and you are telling me I am wrong. And you are responding in a tone that doesn't invite polite responses; but I have made every effort to consider your...

Yes, and this is a system that doesn't suit my taste. But at least it does offer powers tied to your class. So there is some depth and texture to the game. So while I would have prefered they treated combat differently, I wouldn't say it lacks what the skill system lacks.

The way 3E was meant to be balanced, was by GMs taking a close look at each prestige class and splat book before allowing them into his campaign. They really could have done a better job balancing new material and old material. No doubt. But if you were attentive when players requested things...

Multiclassing always played a huge role in my campaigns and in the characters I made (both as a GM and as a player). Class dipping was fun, and I enjoyed it alot. Yes, system mastery was important. And without it, you were at a disadvantage, which could be a problem. I thought the intention of...

It reduces 4Es ability to handle mysteries, because it reduces the overall significance of skill choices, and that is what makes a mystery work well. It would be as if they had taken the same consolidation-trained/untrained approach to combat. What if everyone was either trained or...

But 3E was built around multiclassing. The only characters I rarely saw multiclassed were wizards and druids. You could do a lot, even with just the core books, by multiclassing.

I answered that question, and I was immediately attacked for suggeion that 4E doesn't handle mystery and investigations very well. The OP wanted to know what styles 4E wasn't well suited for out of the box. That was my answer. And the reason is the trained/untrained skills, and the consolidation...