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Close enough.

In your particular example there wouldn’t be a difference. But depending on precisely the players do in that 5 seconds it might matter a great deal. And of course @Maxperson is talking about much longer timeframes than 5 seconds in advance.

I see both sides repeatedly refer to gamist issues in their non-favored style. I think that elides the fact that there are other priorities at stake than just gamism and is why such statements aren’t persuasive to anyone. If I want the dynamic drama given by narrativist approaches it really...

Maybe. I think they may view you as having just pushed the actual problem off to the cat instead of the person coming to the door. Unless the cat wasn’t just made up at that moment as a posthoc justification. I also think it may fail the plausibility test for a more traditional oriented player...

But the 2-in-6 chance could change based on the events in play right? Say initially there’s a 1 in 3 chance for wolves in the forest. The players really hate wolves (or think they can make a lot of money selling their furs) so proceed to hunt and maybe get other to hunt as many as possible for...

I’m not sure where it’s going either yet as it depends on your answers. It’s more of an inquisitive discussion from my perspective. So you are good with tables being procedurally generated so long as the thing the basis for the generation is preestablished. Books 1-3 in this case. There’s...

I think your explanation here is probably the best explanation. The difference lies not in objective quantumness but depends on the observer’s perspective - a basic tenant of quantum mechanics is upheld in the analogy!

Okay. So we are good with procedurally generating content from a preestablished table. Is there an acceptable way to procedurally generate the table?

That raises a good question. Is there any way to procedurally generate content that won’t make a traditional oriented player feel like only the rolls matter?

The very thing you frame as problematic here we would frame as a virtue. As players we want an experience where all that is possible because it’s a better simulation of how things work in reality. The virtue is in the simulation. From a purely gamist perspective this definitely won’t make for...

Not for the bear.

I posit that for those that it matters, there’s a distinction in quantum existence and quantum chance to appear.

Why do you think the cook only comes into existence because of the roll instead of simply already existing and just being at that location because of the roll? I think I’ve been clear I’m not a fan of fail forward. But I don’t think you are being fair to it.

Why can’t the failed check just determine that the cook is there? But wait isn’t that still quantum. A dice deciding whether the cook is there or somewhere else?

I’m with you on the ogre. The quantum mischaracterization here seems just as applicable to random encounter tables. That isn’t to say there aren’t differences in this and random encounter tables, but the issue isn’t that it’s not decided till the moment of the roll, else we would all avoid...

You missed my favorite one of all - the Ouija board.

I don’t think you’re saying it quite right but I think I get the meaning. There is no guaranteed cook wherever you go here. The cook is contingent on your decision to break into the house. In that respect, a different decision (something other than breaking into the house) would not produce a...

In fail forward the dice aren’t deciding the cook is there. The dm is. All the dice decide is that some complication is occurring while the game state progresses. It’s becoming a big pet peeve of mine to not be precise on that point, especially when we are contrasting with techniques where...

I want to go deeper than that. Why does it matter to you whether they existed beforehand? What are you gaining if that's the case as opposed to it not being the case?

mostly it would be - because that's the particular game being played. Why should the Rogue being undetected while breaking into the house depend on his lockpicking roll? Yet most of us will have no issue lumping those 2 outcomes under a single lockpicking check.