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Well I admit the falling rules for Paladin are pretty harsh. The class was intended to be that way but I'd probably be easier than the standard rules. I'd allow for atonement in some way though it might still be somewhat costly mechanically. I have theorized why they like or dislike things...

Did they actually say that???

The DM doesn't say "Your character doesn't do that." He is warning the player about knowledge the character has that the player may have forgotten but their character most certainly would not have. You might even say the God is in some kind of spiritual communication with the player. I don't...

Falling mechanics? It sounds like they must have been pretty happy if they've gotten down to falling mechanics to complain about. I think there is also the belief that people like me will soldier on modifying the game so they can ignore my preferences. It's why I haven't bought a single 5e...

I agree. It's never gotten all the way to the point where a cleric has lost everything. Usually when the DM says "Your Deity would view this as an evil act or a chaotic act or whatever," the player turns back. They want to play a certain type of cleric which is why they chose cleric and...

You are talking about a bad DM. And yes if the player chooses to have their cleric abandon the faith knowing the consequences then it is a roleplaying opportunity. They will likely in time go to another God and start advancing there as a cleric. They may lose a level along the way if I'm DM...

Well we are still giving our views because we think those views are fun and worth promulgating. If D&D did more to support a variety of playstyles that would be good. I don't mind plot coupons as an optional rule I ignore. I think traditional D&D is incredibly fun. I do not think WOTC is...

I disagree because we give up good rules that are fun and engaging to try to avoid something unavoidable with a bad DM.

If nothing else, there are games where what happens in the world can affect player mechanics and games where they cannot. Two different types of games though further differentiated by other considerations too. I have said often that I could adopt a whole variety of ways for divine magic to...

I think ultimately this is a debate between different styles of game. I will avoid Forge terminology but it applies. I think it goes to the debate about whether in game PCs know about spell slots. It never occurred to me they didn't until someone here said their players did not.

If the cleric is standing in an anti-magic zone is the class fundamentally changed? At this moment in time, the cleric is unable to cast spells because in game their Deity won't give them the spells. Naturally, an all or nothing approach is a strawman most of the time. Typically the...

It was me mocking your attitude towards DMs when I responded to you that one time. Obviously, and I'd never let you within sniffing distance of one of my games. But I dispute that is a DM heavy zone in absolute numbers. There may be a greater ratio of DMs than the ratio at a table which is...

The character is not changed fundamentally. At this moment in time, the Deity is not giving the character their spells which is an in game activity. The actual class remains unchanged. There is a mechanism though in game where the Deity gives spells to their followers which is the foundation...

I agree. Designing a game to thwart bad DMs will just ruin the fun for everyone and the bad DMs will still prevail at being bad.

I think one of the things they loved about 4e was getting away from rules as physics. Meaning monster design rules that had to be followed. They went to exceptions based design instead and 5e still reflects that decision. In exceptions based design CR is an art as much as a science. I'm not...

He is not making a player mistake but in the eyes of his Deity he is making a character mistake.

Yeah Meyers Briggs is not ideal I just used it as an example. I just think a few extra characters that give the DM a personalty type. It would be handy when detailing out a large city and generating some of the NPCs.

So many of us have said over and over that there is a path to restoration. That in game the cleric will need to make some sort of atonement. We've also said that the "stripping away of powers" does not happen all at once in one fell swoop unless the offense is incredibly obviously against the...

We will just have to agree to disagree without more data. I'm not against setting group expections first. It's all super important. The thing is you can't really do "setting group expectations" until you understand the details of being a DM and making decisions about the game. But this is...

I think this is 99% of it if not 100%. I have zero qualms houseruling. I'm at the write the whole darn game myself stage. I just don't care. I do though think the play experience is being ruined in later iterations of D&D but it started in 3e and has only gotten worse. Nothing bad ever...