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I disagree and this is where we need to stop... your games don't use skills the same way mine do, there is nothing to be gained other then one of us getting mad now. If you or any of the others have a question on how something works in my game I will gladly tellyou how we play but please stop...

not at any game I have ever seen... players have skills for a reason. then again the most likely way it will go is "Can I check to see if he's lying" turning into a insight vs bluff

yup... good for the goose good for the gander

says who?

the uncertainty is they don't know how intimidating the creature is... we roll to see...

so there is an unknown outcome (if I can tell he is lieing) and we can't go completely out of game (because I know he is) so we need a way to resovle something with an uncertain outcome... how do we do that in D&D again... oh right dice

in the 15 years I have had an intimidate skill (there wasn't one in 2e but 3e and 5e do) I have never had a player complain and I have had a lot prefere it... even at cons. in 2007 I was at gen con and played in a big huge 15 player game and we got intimidated by a demon thing and none of us had...

ok lets say 2 PCs want to do different things, one goes to the prince and makes a deal behind the other PCs back and then when he tries to lie to the PC they know out of game (they are all at the table) so it comes down to a skill roll because it is unknown variable then you roll and one PC wins

that's fine in my games too... we aren't disagreeing here. you just play differently then I do, I have no problem with my players they are at my table too your trying to make a character decide to be intimidated instead of using the skills

then there would be rules forcing you to act one way instead of roleplaying HOW YOU REACT TO IT there is no discussion here because it is just a disagreement neaither can prove... YES THET HAVE... two of my players MUCH PREFER skill rolls, and even some of my old friends from 2/3e sometimes...

I disagree if you roll bluff vs insight and the bluff wins or the insight wins it is the same result regardless of if one or the other or both are PCS

no I;m not and stop pretending I am doing something wrong! I am running the game telling somone if they know that someone is lying is no different then saying "you don't know about that spell" or if a player wants to identify a spell in game instead of rolling arcana do you just let them decide...

being intimidated is a reaction, it is an emotional response no one is in control of it happens or not. Knowing if someone is lying is no different then knowing the magic words with arcana... they are skills that are rolled or not. no... there is no correct way to be intimidated... it is up to...

you are being very insulting here, my players are incontrol of there character I'm in control of the NPC, when one influences the other I either give one an auto success or if I think there is a chance I let the dice roll...that is the main way the whole game works

see this I agree on look back at the last few

I describe the NPC action, then we roll then the Player determains how to act... I don't think I'm infringing at all, I don't say "You must do X" I say "The character succesed in his intimidate/bluff/hide/what ever check" the player decides how to act in my game too... intimidate is normally...

both of those support my way of playing... if it is obvius tell the player, if it is up to chance roll dice, no where does it say "Make an elbrate discussion and make your player metagame

that would never work with some of my players... Kelly especially would look at you and out right ask what you mean. She would ask if her background as an investigator, or her cleric skills or her observant feat helped... then she would totally not understand

letting the dice fall is way less then trying to make someone explain something you know they can't... I don't know how old school it is, but that has always been my way fo doing thing... like "Can I tell if he's lying" or "Does the orc warlord intimidate him" what does that have to do with...

the npc took an action, used a skill and I fairly used and apply the rules.. I don't get to say, but NPCs can take actions that effect (both magic and mundain) I dno;t understand the difference between magic and skill in this case. because it is another tool in the tool box I agree but there...