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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    The issue is half the people in this thread are mocking the idea of new classes as "splat", bringing in baggage from previous discussions, as if that isn't what myriad subclasses with random themes are.
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    Tell me exactly what you disagree with, because I'd actually like to address it.
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    Yeah, you still aren't getting it. I don't know how else to explain it.
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    D&D 5E (2014) In your Years of Gaming, How many Psionic Characters did you See played

    Yeah, except there's a pretty strong consensus psion should be its own class because that's the only thing that makes any god damn sense.
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    Nope. You failed again. What I actually said was the developers are sloppy when they take a concept that intuitively works better as a full class and, instead of either developing it fully or leaving it as homebrew, they shoehorn it into a subclass or even a series of subclasses tacked onto...
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    I dunno, maybe, just.. actually read the original post?
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    That's... not really the point of the thread. At all.
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    So why develop anything ever then? Seriously these posts blow my mind sometimes.
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    D&D 5E (2014) In your Years of Gaming, How many Psionic Characters did you See played

    Yeah and I don't think that's a good reason to try to turn it into a wizard tradition. In fact it seems like a lazy cop-out and should be called out exactly on those grounds. If they are unwilling to do it right, they need to just leave it for homebrew
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    D&D 5E (2014) Skills redux

    I guess what I'm not following is that weapon proficiency already works exactly like skill/tool proficiency - it doesn't specifically need to be represented as a "skill" or a "tool". That was the whole point of creating a single "proficiency bonus". What you seem to be suggesting is making all...
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    Unearthed Arcana New Unearthed Arcana: Psionics!

    Such incredible insight in this one simple statement.
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    I started playing during 2e, and I never have. I also don't know that I would call it bloat. 20 or so class options /= 11 different class options with 60 or 70 subclass options between them. Although I actually do agree that we ended up with too many classes in 3.5 due to subclasses not being a...
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    Sure. Just two weeks ago I had a new player rolling up a monk. She knew she wanted a monk but was overwhelmed by subclass options. Keep in mind that I really like subclasses. I just think there are appropriate and inappropriate uses of them. Regardless, I could easily turn this around and ask...
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    D&D 5E (2014) Should Psion be a Class or Subclass?

    The more I listen to him, the more I question him. His reasoning is highly flawed. The reason psions weren't terribly popular in previous editions is because they a.) never had a ton of established lore behind them, and b.) were always presented in niche ways to a market they presumed was niche...
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    What you're describing is exactly what I'm proposing. I'm not sure how you extracted anything different from my posts. Just because no one agrees on what a witch is doesn't make it a poor example. In fact, it makes it a really good example because of all the different possible directions you...
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    I don't understand how it's so hard for you (and some others) to correctly understand the point I'm making. I'm not sure why you still seem to think my argument is "a witch class is needed". That would be quite a silly argument. Did we need psionics, even as a subclass? Isn't that adequately...
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    The dictionary is not using fantasy archetypes as a basis for its definition, and D&D isn't using the dictionary as its basis for developing a class.
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    No. The warlock is a different concept drawing from a different part of fantasy.
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    If the system had been built that way, I would have had no problem with it. But it wasn't. We have 11 classes, some of which are tied to quite specific concepts. I see no legitimate reason whatsoever to just draw a line now and refuse to build on it. It really feels like a lazy "just because"...
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    D&D 5E (2014) Really concerned about class design

    You did what I outlined above. I can literally reflavor anything as anything else. I guess that means we're done with new material of any kind, right? Yay! No, sorry, that doesn't work. The wizard package as it exists in D&D does not at all fit into witch archetypes from common fantasy, which...
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