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I'd argue that it's very iconic that way. Think about many of the horror movies where the person "turning" undead does it. They're almost always pointing the cross directly at the vampire or monster and pushing it backwards with holy might. "Back! Baaaack beast of Satan!" I COULD see like an...

That too me has all the highlights of an epic story.

Ah- Ok I see what you're saying, and yeah I would agree the rules themselves don't require this info. Do you have an example of a game that does? I'm not sure I can think of any that I've played that get to this level of detail about an action. Do you feel it would be better for the game to...

It hould come with a free he-man action figure and a bottle of orange soda.

So what are these numbers telling you?

I agree with @[Man in the Funny Hat] I don't HATE save or die, but they should only be there for reallllly meaningful reasons. Not just random gotcha moments. I also think the majority of foes that use SoD in the older systems would have been better off with the 4e style. It's not a...

Not entirely- yeah obviously if there are more options in a game people have more tactics they can use, so yes, the way a game is designed can alter the way people think about making choices, but it's not in the way people seem to have been presenting in this thread. I think people watch (or...

And I still disagree completely that it has anything to do with the game as opposed to the player. Again there have always been people that think about what their character can do as opposed to what their character SHOULD do in a certain situation. Did 4e give these types of players more...

He's polling about the most basic gut instinct starting point though, not about how the logo should look overall. If your answer is the ampersand, that's a starting point. It doesn't matter if another logo looks better without it, because your gut instinct response says those logos aren't D&D...

But it would still be a playable game- that's why they're in the second part. Rules that you need for it to feel like D&D.

I would see it working better as part of an ad, and not the actual logo.

I get that people have their opinions on how they like to play, but I'm not sure what the problem would be if the core was race/class combined, as long as the option to split them was there. My reasoning is simplicity. It's just one less thing to pick if you want to throw down a dude real...

I still disagree with this statement, as much as I disagree with someone saying the player of a wizard or cleric have been traditionally less "creative" then someone playing a fighter or a thief. I've seen people in all games I've ever run who look at their character sheet (no matter how...

Yep. Well- everything is flavor until you attach a rule to it. :P

I agree. Neither will a rules lite system though.

Does it really matter if you start from the assumption that "This is what an Elven Mage would look like?" Start the game really simple, pick a class (which includes race) roll stats, hp, but stuff. go. Next layer, separate race from class. Next layer start adding things like skills and feats...

So essentially you don't need it to run a game, but to you it wouldn't feel like D&D without it? (Do you basically like just seeing it on the paper, or do you use it in some way that feels "D&D" to you?)

I think though it's not an issue with the rules creating a style vrs not creating a style, because that would mean that people who played spellcasters in earlier editions were most likely less creative then non spell casters (because the spell casters had more codified rules on their sheet to...

Ok I think maybe I need to change the list up... Also DUH! How could I forget Levels... Thanks cPerkins... Rule Related (Bare minimum that you NEED to play the game) Stats Class (At a very basic level I think class can cover both class and race) Level Speed Armor Class Attack Bonus Hit...

Hrmm... Not sure I agree. My reasoning being I tried to keep it to stuff that has direct effect on the rules. IE Without AC, HP, ToHit, and Damage you can't resolve combat. Without Stats you don't have anything to play off of for Skills... I think without Class you don't have a way to package...