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Hauling you up, killing you eating your body for energy, looting your supplies then utting youmloose and climbing out.

Yup. This matches most any gimmick point (called hero points in many, momentum, plot points etc) game I have been in. "Surviving pretty much came down to always making sure I had a hero point available." Pretty much - whether you have your gimmicks is a big determination for key moments...

I think this helps clear up some stuff. One of the issues folks were reading into this was the issues of why the drsgon made an offer at all. What that implied about the dituation. Another was the paladin "doing nothing." Here we now can see both of those resulted from an attempt after...

Sorry but i reject this idea... That its evil unless its no win. Remember there is another factor... The paladin is already engaged in a quest to save te world. So, risking that by courting death here is very low on the moral choices list, isnt it? Far as i can tell,

Ok then.

Again, whichever flavor of ice cream you like is great, for you. That's why I try to stay away from feelings to stick with outcomes. As in... against a group of 5th level charscters without setting to make it go otherwise, goblins wont be a threat. The key to tier-2 is much greater ability to...

"This isn't murder, but the player didn't seem to even acknowledge that there might be a problem with the action and his oath(though, again, we may not even have the full picture). The DM sure thought so, but considering the scenario he set up, he's not really a neutral (or even a good) arbiter...

I do not see anything in this description of evrpent that would lead me to see this as violating an ancients oath. From the description, To the player it seemed to be both die and forfeit quest or allow the dragon to claim its prize. It was a failed rescue not murder, and without suicide...

"Dragon: Give me the man, I'm hungry!" Noticing the "and you can live" with its threat implied was dropped in your summary there. As was the cornered and heavily outgunned. As was the bigger quest... Heck, seems like the whole bit the player did in gsme and the statement after about not...

So, long story short, if I get this right, its immoral to not choose to die with the guy until you are "sure" (have validated) it's not possible to "win" (get that guy out) even if there is a risk of such efforts making things worse. But there is a point st which it wont be immoral because you...

Honestly, I would not want to debate about one's "feelings" any more than flavors and tastes. Whole you say you dont want to discuss outcomes, you then go into outcomes. Let's look at your "feeling". On a role of 2 the fighter wiped two hobbledins... That might let some ferl "hey I am big...

My point was simple, especially in reference to the example given, both games advise or represent that in plsy significantly lower CR crestures are reduced to non-significsnt scenery. No argument that PF2 might limit the scluce of monsters a GM csn use effectively more than 5e does. That's a...

I confess, I was starting to wonder what the point was to this thread after this. Post changes in vague form, say dont wsnt comments about balance, dismiss a variety if comments about what folks see as issues, then refuse to give context (other equitable changes for other vlasses.) "I hunted...

To me, the concentration removal removes tactical options thenplayer need. It's more frequent yo have higher level enemies and if upcast spells cannot be dropped by damage hits and failed saves - that's bad.

I must say tho, I actually chimed in thinking this was about actually working the level into the narrative - not about the different CR scale. I was hoping for info on actual in game narrative representations of " level". Not a set of combat based claims about how PF2 narrows the number of...

"They want fighting a higher level monster or character to feel desperate, a creature of your level to feel like an even match, and a lower level enemy to feel like you have the upper hand." That sounds like just using a different scale. 5e went with setting the scale at equal CR means medium...

"The narrative of the game is one in which goblin warriors are scenery to a 5th level party and are not included in the encounter budget." Same as in 5e. I really see no difference here. The CR system DMG explicitly tells GM to "dont count monsters whose cr is "significantly lower" than the...

"Only the player has the authority to define their code - - the agreement they made with their god. I don't see anywhere in the rules that I, as DM, am the final arbiter of such, even in the sidebar where it recommends a discussion. I agree, you should always discuss things with your players so...

"A player's paladin should only fall if the player decides it should fall." I agree but to me the player and the character making an informed choice to egregiously violate his oath is *to me as GM * the player deciding it should. Note - the case in this thread did not hit the informed or the...

"They put someone else's life ahead of their own, and allowed someone else to die in their stead with no agreement from that person. " I would consider this valid as a depiction if the offer made was "one of you may live, the other dies. Choose." But that wasnt the case. There was no offer of...