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Correct. Everyone knows it takes 3 levels of wizard to replace the rogue. ;)

It annoys a lot of people and why people think D&D is all about combat. And maybe it is. Skills used to be separate actions or reserved for individual classes (thief). I think it made more sense back then. NWP in 2nd edition started the ball rolling toward the 3e skill system which just made the...

For other systems this might work, but D&D has a long history of not doing that. It takes certain "skills" and makes them micro-systems (combat, spells, etc). It would be more fitting with previous D&D editions to break out skills into its own micro-system. But then the issue becomes is it just...

This is only an issue if you're trying to "convince" them of something. I'm not stating a fact, I'm stating a preference. You cannot argue with a preference. My preference is to not include encounter-based powers. There's not really any need to discuss why because I'm not stating a fact that...

Yep. Hence the desire for a modular system.

Yes, you nailed it, a bit more eloquently than I did I think. 4e at least acknowledges that skills are an issue and attempts to deal with them in a way that matches its play style. What I want is a way to do the same thing in reverse but without seriously impacting spells and combat. It might...

They're the only things that are useful, because it means that if the games includes encounter based resources, I'll pass. I make my decision to play games because they're fun, not because they're logically sound or mathematically better. I play them because I like them, I do not require other...

Getting there, now try it again without the points. As a DM I have enough to keep track of. How can we do it without points.

The journey is different, but the end result of getting over the cliff is the same. If you take park street to work and I take blue street, we're going to have different experiences, but the end result of getting to work is the same. Again, it's not that the person cannot climb the cliff, it's...

I think I've identified where the difference is. I require rolls, you do not. If they're talking to the king, no matter what the conversation, the kings reaction is partially based on a roll and not entirely based on the conversation. Is this the case?

I never mentioned anything about challenging the characters. It's not about creating challenges, it's about skills accurately reflecting and participating in the game of D&D. The choice of options should be equal between climbing or flying or ignoring, and currently they are not. This doesn't...

The skill is still relevant, it's just not equal. I run skill heavy games in both my 1e/BECMI and PF/3x games. There are more skills being used than combats being fought. I am constantly disappointed with the limitations in both. I looked at NWP and played around with them in my 1e game, but was...

I'm not talking about skills becoming either impossible to fail or impossible to succeed at, that's primarily at 3e issues. I'm talking about the universal problem that there isn't a skill that can't be ignored by high level characters either through the use of magic, magic items, brute force...

I have no idea what you're talking about, nor do you have any idea what my playstyle is. The issue of mundane skills becoming irrelevant at high levels is an issue in every edition. The only time it's not an issue is if you don't have mundane tasks presented at high level, which is just one of...

I agree, it is primarily a 3e thing, and it happens a lot in that edition. It's really not an issue for earlier edition skills.

I most certainly don't like it, but it exists in every edition. High level play minimizes challenges that defeat low level play. I've had the same issue from 1e onward. My point isn't to keep it because it's better. I don't think it is. My point is to find a solution. 4e has a solution. It might...

It's not how I run games either. The adding of level to skills is worse, in my opinion, than adding ability score to skills. It trivializes the skill in some ways, as I feel ability scores do as well. But if I'm playing a high level character adventuring through a dungeon by myself and come...

In 3e if the rogue is picking locks at 3rd level or higher, you forgot to bring your wizard :)

I'm not arguing for or against. My preferred style is not the 4e mechanic, it's not even the 3e mechanic, 2e or 1e mechanic. I was simply pointing out the rationale. Logically it makes perfect sense. I cannot think of one player that could not bypass a simple lock with ease at 20th level...