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I’ll agree to disagree if you agree to stop framing your argument as undeniably true.

In the end, it's a game, so it won't matter if that word is not included. I say that jokingly. It matters to you and others who would like to include attractiveness in the definition of Charisma. Perhaps you can take into account that it matters to other people, too, who would like to exclude...

I think you risk closing off the options for me to say, "I am beautiful and I have a low charisma."

Sorry, yes, confusing question. If beauty is a part of Charisma, can we have physically attractive low-Charisma PCs? Can players describe their characters as attractive, or are they constrained by that low CHA ability score?

I do deny that! First, I deny that declining to buy a product is retaliation. Second, I deny that declining to buy a product is harmful. That is not taking anything away from anyone. I could spend every cent of my disposable income on WotC games and it would provide no benefit to 3rd party...

The five-star “review” has been deleted.

What about the other way around? Would you expect DMs to accept that a low-strength PC could be described as having athletic training and bodily power but lacking in the third component (the ability to exert raw physical force)? Would it be a problem to have two characters, each with athletic...

Fact: Declining to buy products is not harmful.

Consider instead believing them when they say they were harmed. Just a thought.

Why is it so important to convince people who feel harmed that they were not actually harmed? And why try to convince people who feel harmed that they actually benefited?

No. If it's easier to imagine, it's because the players are ignoring the answer to that first question above and chosing a superficial perspective that undermines nuance and verisimilitude in world-building. That's a valid choice for a game, but it's not to everyone's taste. No. Yes. From...

I too have been waiting for the answer to that question.

I do very much like this approach and have used it with important NPCs. (Usually, I abstract all those considerations as part of the d20 result.) It would work with regard to attractiveness also. In some circumstances with some people, appearance can affect DCs and/or provide...

I know I'm stepping into a conversation tangential to the point of the thread, but here I go, stepping into a conversation tangential to the point of the thread. I'm seeing Max's point here. With D&D's abstract hit points and combat resolution, any excitement -- hit or miss -- has to come from...

It's probably best (IMO of course) to ask players for character descriptions rather than labels like ugly, attractive, or smokin' hot, which don't convey any real information. DMs should do the same for NPCs. I can have my chiseled jaw and sculpted pectorals, and you can decide if you swoon.

“I intend to try to convince the priest to give us the holy water, to threaten the ogre, to lie to the mayor about sneaking into the graveyard, and to play fiddle for tips on the street corner after dark. I’ll apply my +0 ability modifier to all those CHA checks and you can tell me the results.”

Lanefan seemed to have not noticed that Clint_L was replying directly to a post that did make appearance the entirety of Charisma. I thought the context was important. And no - it’s no problem for me if at your table you allow appearance to be the entirety of Charisma. I’d rather not have...

The post that Clint_L was replying to did suggest that appearance could be the whole of Charisma.

Okay. I don't see the appeal. That's not a positive addition to the game (IMO). It's an odd notion that good looks alone can make a person influential, persuasive and suited for leadership. It's not reflective of actual human interactions. I don't think it adds anything of value to in-game...

We can imagine an attractive character with a low charisma, and we can imagine an unattractive character with a high charisma. We can imagine a rakish scoundrel who falls for any handsome face, and we can imagine a vain prince who is suspicious of any handsome rivals. We can imagine beholders...