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Why are you going on about the Castle Greyhawk module. Nobody, including TSR/WOTC/Hasbro, looks at that as anything but a glitch. The difference between Greyhawk's powerful people is that they were intentionally placed in the background whereas in Forgotten Realms they are in the background...

Your point appears to ignore that the actions of a Demi-God in the past do not present anything like the same dynamic as the actions of a powerful NPC in the present of a campaign setting. Your arguments for similarity are oversimplifications.

Sorry, but no. There is a qualitative difference between asides to Mordenkainen and the way Elminster is used in several early Forgotten Realms adventures. You actually quoted me giving evidence to that and look past it. Mordenkainen is offered as a Pre-Gen character if the DM and players are so...

By then I had been burned enough by FRealms that I didn't want anything to do with the campaign adventures. I had never really purchased any to use in the FRealms but I thought I could use them by 'porting them over to another setting. The way they were designed it really wasn't worth the...

Zagyg and Celestian are the only gods in Greyhawk that I know of who hang out, rarely, with mortals, namely Mordenkainen, Heward, Keoughtom, and Murlynd. This is mostly on other planes and usually involves Keoughtom who is a Quasi-Deity. Zagyg has few worshippers and is not particularly active...

And Zagyg as an archmage is in the past of the campaign setting. The capture of 9 gods is how he ascends to demi-god status which is not even made clear in the original campaign book and is certainly not important to any adventure the players would be involved in that I can think of, maybe it's...

You might want to reconsider. Read Module FRE1, FRE2, and FRE3. Elminster is central to the plot. He is doing much more than the PCs about the immediate threats of the Godswar. He punishes them if they don't want to go on the railroad-y adventure. He gives them clues and "support". The...

The Scarlet Brotherhood would probably be your strongest point. Funny, I have never used them. Castle Greyhawk is an adventure. The Circle of 8 is a group of archmages, none of which are sleeping with gods or who rule major city-states or nations... and their goal is essentially to maintain...

A recent computer model indicates Renfrew was almost right. What was throwing him off is that the Anatolian wave of advance was a second wave after the initial Caucasian wave for PIE. The deeper problem with secret governments and the potential for secret coups, which apparently have happened...

Maybe they have fixed the things I disliked about FRealms history/politics/society over the decades. I might have to stare at it. (The free way is to go check out wikis.) I want to be clear. When I say I read history books for fun and work, I'm talking about books from folks like Marc Bloch...

Mordenkainen hangs out with some gnomes far away from the cities and isn't particularly active in game supplements. His name is everywhere but that's about it.

Based on the short version of FRealms history I am familiar with it makes me think I would just find pages and pages of stuff I would find annoying and want to ignore. If you like it, great. All signs point to me not liking all those details based on the details I already know.

I can see the Raistlin/Elminster comparison but not the Mordenkainen one. Mordenkainen wasn't killing gods, making love to gods, etc. As far as the countries and their histories, I dislike the execution in FRealms. It read like some guys who don't know history just tossing stuff together...

I don't know anything about an Empire of Shade. Chult feels like any other jungle setting to me. The execution on Sembia, etc. I found lacking when I was considering running Forgotten Realms. I looked at the map and where the trade was and the roads and everything and it felt like a mess that...

What is distinctive about Forgotten Realms to you besides the powerful NPCs? What am I supposed to like enough to run a FRealms campaign when I don't like Elminster, the Simbul, etc.?

Or choose another campaign setting. That is a perfectly valid option.

That's obvious. Your response indicates to me that you aren't getting it because I never made the claim you are refuting. Here's a simple truth: If I don't like enough of something in a book I don't buy the book. If a book is laced with stuff I don't like and will have to ignore in order to use...

On the idea that multiple settings killed TSR or some such. I don't know if that had anything to do with it except coincidence. Maybe, it did. However, I think the explosion in collectible card games and the birth of sophisticated online computer "roleplaying" games did a ton more damage than...

I don't like Elminster. I don't like Driz'zt. I don't like Khelben. I don't like Simbul. I don't like the Harpers. I don't like... At a certain point I have nothing to use but a map that isn't any more compelling than any other map. I don't like many of the NPCs introduced in the old days...

That's not what I am getting at. If I am on the fence about buying a product that could be the tipping point for me to not shell out my cash. The "Elminster introduces" thing