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Totally in agreement as far as DnD style games go. In no small part because it makes remembering the rules easier if you're not remembering two separate sets of rules.

I think I see what you're saying here. I feel like at this point the difference is more a matter of semantics and narrative than anything else. Though in fairness I don't remember what this post is in reference to as far as mechanics. :ROFLMAO:

Imo, you still are. Just not for this specific version of 5e. The trend in D&D adjacent games has always been fast elf, strong orc, tough dwarf. That trend doesn't go away just because one game doesn't enforce it. Arguably, you're bucking an even larger trend.

In other words, what a race is predisposed to in-setting should be up to the GM, not the game devs. Because we aren't all working in one setting.

You're still bucking a trend. Just not the statistical trend. You're bucking a narrative trend. If, for example, in my setting, all orcs live in a giant wizard tower and learn magic, an orc barbarian with no magic powers is bucking the trend. It's about the story, not the stats. The stats are...

The Stereotypes continue to exist outside of this game. Also, the trends can still exist without them being a part of PC generation. Tolkein and Gygax's legacies don't stop existing just because they aren't mechanically represented in every character generation process. And the more important...

I don't think we disagree with that. But 5e does put your characters a cut above by default. Every stat block for normal people is something below what the players will have with either standard array or point buy, and well below average for rolled results. The PCs are better than normal people...

For some quick and dirty math, all point buy results have average stats between 12.5 and 11.5. So the average is probably about a 12.

Right, you don't lose anything from free ASIs, and we gain something. So what's the issue?

I feel like that's more about the power level of bard and the fact that you were multiclassing into Barb to make use of your +2.

Dude, if you want to play retroclones or OSR games, no one is stopping you. But this game has at least a basis in 5e. And so long as it has that, PCs are going to be a cut above, even at level one.

I think a more pertinent point is that 5e, and most games really, already violate this in lots of little ways. And I consider plenty of those games very playable. Even good.

I just find it easier to not have to bandaid things when rolled stats fail to produce a playable character. The PCs are more important to get right than NPCs. An NPC can deal with a 3-6 in one of their stats or no stats above 13. That's a little too rough for me to consider inflicting it on my...

Because I mean, if not, then I guess I don't have any problems with you doing something similar with cultures in your home games. I just don't think ASIs linked to culture should be built into the system.

Ok, do you think we should link ASIs to culture? Because that's what I assumed based off of that list and the argument around it.

Yeah, once you hit level 12, the +1 stops mattering so much, because you cap out and even up with anyone else of your class.

Right, we could homebrew a solution to a problem we are creating, but we don't have to homebrew our way around things when we're discussing how we can make the system work better in the first place. And I think we should try to design so that there's less constraints on combinations of choices...

+1 is four levels of growth for non-fighters. And considering most games don't go past level 9, that's pretty significant.

What is the leverage there? Like, what leverage do you actually have? I'm not seeing it. They still have to pick a culture either way, you just took the choice away from them or forced them to play parley with the GM to get the character concept they want. That's not interesting or fun. It's...

I do notably think that races should be given something akin to a feat to make up for the loss of ASIs. Because I think your race should be an interesting part of who you are. I just don't think it should define what classes you should pick. That's too large of a caveat in picking a race, or...