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yes, and that is exactly what I said, glad you posted the rule I was talking about.

this is both true and not true. While the character does not meet the prereqs listed in the feat he 'does' have an ability which says he gets to ignore those prereqs. So, in essence, the special ability takes away the prereqs. Or, in another way, qualifies him automatically whether he normally...

Being able to 'use' the benefit is something seperate. The fighter 1 could get power attack (assuming a str 13+) but he couldnt use it for anything. However, that does not apply to the case of the monk. The whole reason that he monk qualifies is 'because' he can gain the benefit.

monks unarmed strikes are weapons ;) you get 1x str mod on them.

Sorry, I meant it more in a general sense as opposed to a right away sense. As in, at level 3 the human has 3 feats, but the halforc only has 2. Of course, with those two he could have 'gotten' weapon focus as well, but that is also not the point. Merely trying to point out that being one feat...

Umm.. yeah, he does. Otherwise I can simply fall back on, 'a feat is an effect'. Since the prereq is part of the feat then by default it is part of an effect. In other words, unless the prereq is a seperate entity then the whole line of, 'a prereq isnt an effect' is either completely wrong or...

Could you do what patryn apparently cannot and show some rules stating that the prereq is a completely seperate entity from the feat that it is a part of? Without that little bit of information stating that, 'the prereq isnt an effect' is at best a pink bunny. I have already posted rules...

Edited for the two parts I am interested in. +2 str (which, for a monk, would only be +1 to hit and damage) changed the character from 'not' a good damage dealer to 'a brute'? The extra feat from a human could have gotten weapon focus, so basically this comes down to just 1 point of damage per...

I'd go human all the way ;) Bonus skill points and the bonus feat, in my eyes, more than make up for the lack of darkvision and the 2 points of str. After all, you can get darkvision from a number of places, but it is hard to beat the sheer number of skill points. That feat can really help you...

You dont need to prove that the prereq is a seperate entity than the feat? Why not? your entire arguement is hinged on that. Without that little bit of info your arguement means the same as the pink bunnies. The feat qualifies as an effect. So for all parts of that feat the monks ability...

This is the part that I feel you have no basis in the RAW. Which means that the arguement fails on step one. You have not shown that the prereq needs to be an effect, or that it even exists in some metaphysical realm outside of the feat itself, or that somehow even though one could qualify for...

::shrugs:: I could simply say that pink bunnies prevent monks from ever gaining level 2. That doesnt make it so. If you can show how the prereqs are not part of a feat then maybe you will start to have an arguement. The prereqs simply state what is needed to be able to use the feat, and the...

As far as I can tell it doesnt. The point has no basis that I can see. There is nothing to suggest that the prereqs are not part of the feat, which itself is an effect, and so can be qualified for directly.

That is fine. But it definately seems like you are destroying logic while simultaneously ignoring the rules. That is what I am having trouble with. Your arguement simply makes a distinction that cannot, and as far as I can tell, does not exist.

I am afraid that here is one of the main points I see your arguement breaking down. This part simply makes no sense. It isnt necissary for the prereq to count as an effect, it is part of the feat. The only thing that matters is whether or not the 'feat' which the prereq is 'part of' counts as...

No, I do not see the distinction. If it counts as for a purpose then it counts as for that purpose. I just dont see how it could count as being a natural weapon for a feat enough to get the benefit but not count enough to be counted as being a natural weapon in order to get the benefit. The...

If I remember correctly he was useing the, 'monks unarmed strikes arent actually natural weapons and so do not meet the prereqs' arguement. Which I find to be incredibly silly considering that the ability itself says that the monks unarmed strikes count as natural weapons for effects. How one...

I have not seen any sufficient proof from you to state this. If you know of a place where my arguement breaks down feel free to say so. Otherwise, I follow the rules point by point and the only conclusion that I can draw is that it works.

Anything else we can help you with and answer 10 times in a row? lol

They are creatures. In general you cannot 'dispel magic' creatures and expect it to do anything to them directly ;) Golems are also uneffected by dispel magic, in case that helps. Undead are also uneffected.