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Fair enough. We'll agree to disagree then. I agree, there are different sorts of balance and you need to find the one thats right for you/your group, but relying on the skill and mutual understanding of the players can be hazardous at best, particularly if you are introducing new players...

This just isn't true though. Assuming some basic magic gear. A typical 4e fighter will have 29 hit points at first level and 65 at seventh. His attack bonus will be +8 at first level and +12 or 13 at seventh. A comparable 1e fighter will have on average 8 hit points at first level and 53...

Typo/terminology failure on my part there, blame the flu :). That post is for a game thats balanced at the design stage. If you are balancing at the play stage *and are concerned about play balance* (theres no reason you'd have to be, and if you aren't thats fine) then you have to worry about...

Familiar with Wushu? Does a good impression of flip a coin and you are pretty much free to set and frame as you choose. The point with restricting the mechanics and systems available is that it allows you to better predict what the capabilities of a given group of characters given a small...

Ok, I think I'm understanding where you are coming from here. What seem to be saying is that a desire for balance as part of the rules structure limits the design elements that can be part of that rules design, correct? So balance being important at the design stage means that the game faces...

Playing a good fighter because your assume that this will net you the most benefit in the game -> Metagaming or not? Picking +1 to combat because your diplomat has been involved in lots of fights -> Metagaming or not?

Quite. The point was made in response to RC, that somehow the design assumptions that go into 1e make it free of limitations in a way that say, 4e is limited. You demonstrate quite clearly that this is not the case - both games have limitations for balance which require running the game in...

What if the envision their characters to be skilled fighters?

"eighth level" is just a number picked out of a hat. The point is (simplified), if one class is designed to start weak and become rapidly stronger and another class is designed to start relatively strong and advance slower, then the basic balance is that the first class does well at high...

Indeed. Because starting characters above first level is something that never comes up ever and is a wild, crazy idea. New players never join experienced parties, after all. Characters never die and are replaced. Players never get bored of characters and want new ones. No, thats all crazy...

I'd argue the opposite, really. Take 1e Wizards, as a simple example. The balance in them is that they are weak at low levels and strong at high levels, so the balance emerges as its rare for a Wizard to reach high levels. If you are starting your game with characters at 8th level, then...

I'm not sure there does beyond "Is this meant to be played as an RPG?" Consider the original Warhammer 40k Rogue Trader - its clearly a tabletop wargame, right? The default described mode of play is one. But there are a suprising number of typical roleplaying game trappings attached to it...

Ludicrious hyperbole isn't really making your point. The above is as reasonable as saying that a situation thats addressed by a skill challenge in 4e was covered by playing Mother-May-I in 1e. Lets take the example of avoiding bandits on the way back from Castle Greyhawk. In both cases the...

I'd say that siloing (defined as picking elements in limited numbers from different menu's with no overlap) is certainly a good thing. The thing with combat in this context is that it is a contagious trump. Once you start swinging everything else comes to a halt until thats resolved. You...

Currently Lunatic misfits kill things, take stuff, save the world Though I imagine that kind of describes a lot of campaigns.

Theres another factor here if you are going for a realism arguement - the change in length of the combat rounds. With a 1 minute round, you have a chance to assess the situation, see the flow of the combat and how it's turning for/against you. With a 6 second combat round, a large number of...

Its a quote of an old and famous RPG.net post.

The artifacts.

Yeah, something like that would make a fine Unearthed Arcana or Iron Heros style book. Comparing my Exalted 2e core and 4e PHB here, the "how to roleplay" and "how to design and characterise your character" advice in 4e is remarkably more substantial than that in the Exalted book, which is...

I agree, symbols on dice could be really good, depending on how clear they turn out. I'm thinking the old Blood Bowl block dice, its a randomiser and chart lookup in one!