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I suppose some of the confusion may be over whether 3e actually had some of the things you are worrying about. It had strong rules/heavy guidelines for advancing existing monsters by HD, a strong procedural method of adding class levels (and a huge library of classes to add) but creating...

I think Exalted is a good source of examples of bad rules - its been a while since I read the book but I recall Two-Target Method for Lunars in 1e was a particularly egregious example of this. IIRC it was a charm that let you make two attacks but was strictly worse than just splitting your dice...

There are some other ways of looking at it that may help this disconnect. From designer description and examination of their presentation in the monster manuals (Ogres are a good example of this) minions seem to be primarily an administrative abstraction. Their purpose (much like the mob...

Yeah, that makes sense. Theres a subtley here that I think may be part of the confusion. Earlier in the thread it was suggested that a fully simulated "sandbox" was impossible. In that putative state, the DM knows that there is a dragon in the swamps and it's current position and plans. If...

There's always the Elitist Jerks solution The Banhammer - Elitist Jerks

Theres a further observation that can be made though - the existance of the "holy trinity" in its current form arises from the heritage of the MMO, easily tracable back to magic user/cleric/fighting man. Its interesting to note that the Blizzard designers, for example, are now trying to shift...

Theres an interesting side point here actually in terms of what DM's get out of hack'n'slash games. We can mostly agree that computer games do that niche in a faster and more accessable fashion for the players. However, *creating* content for a computer game is generally massively more time...

As with all things, depends on your campaign. No experience, but I think it's doubtful that its sustainable over a 20 year mega-campaign in the same way other styles may be :) That said, over the course of a strongly episodic relatively short campaign (say, 20 sessions or so)? Sure...

From my perspective, its partly about the simple enjoyment that players get from a dose of the old ultraviolence and partly about the satisfaction of the craft of designing a fun hack'n'slash adventure. Think about the old shooter DOOM for example. Gameplay is very simple - very limited...

Given that it had precisely nothing to do with the conversation at hand (and is, IMO inaccurate, but this isn't the thread for that), sure. I mean, his point that 3rd wanted errata that it didn't get isn't really a hugely contentious position. If it was, Pathfinder wouldn't be the success that...

... <cough>

What's an acceptable level of design flaws for you? If its is "none at all" I expect you to be eternally disappointed by RPG publishing. The thing with this line of arguement though, its that only a small part of those 73 pages are admissions of design flaws. Its mostly clarifications...

Yes, I'll fully expect that. More material is coming and it won't all be perfect. This will always be true as long as we have humans publishing books. Look into errata for medical textbooks some time. Ok, I'll accept that's your opinion. It really doesn't match up with my experiences...

To be fair, its 73 pages of large font, wide spaced text with repeated rules text and a fair amount of commentry, it also covers pretty much every book, adventure and magazine article published to date. The actual text of the revisions is relatively light. Thing is, back in 3e there was a...

Well, the errata are free: Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Official D&D Updates) The paid online resource includes these updates, but isn't the only source of them.

Given that formulation, I think it probably is - its certainly not there to serve the *characters*, but if it's for the players to explore, it serves that purpose for them. Could you clarify what you mean a little?

Can you quote anyone who has not accepted that you like playing D&D the way you like it? All I'm seeing here is people saying that you can do whatever you like.

Yeah, I'll have to agree with others that the swordmage is certainly not weak. The epic level one I'm running now, between Wandering Swordmage and Total Aegis marks everyone within close burst 5 and knocks 27 damage off any one hit on an ally a turn. Its almost overpowered.

Are you talking about Vampire:The Masquerade, Vampire:The Masquerade Second Edition, Vampire:The Masquerade Revised or Vampire: The Requiem here? -edit or for something a little closer to the point for anyone who remembers the flame wars, Mage: The Ascension, Mage: The Ascension Revised or...

To use a non-D&D example, 2e Exalted's Battle, War and Debate use the same structure for resolution. Does this mean that Debate is actually about fighting? Or ditto Dogs in the Vinyard's resolution system, Wushu's scene resolution system and so on. -edit To expand, I'll agree that the...