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4e had many problems... in many ways I think it was like 1e or even basic, it had GREAT ideas that needed years to grow... but instead we got 5e. 4e didn't have the CR system perfect (I can list problems if you like) but of 3e,3.5,PF1,5e and 4e it was the closest to working. To be honest...

in another thread @Maxperson pointed out what a failure the CR system is. IF they where calling it 6e they could redraw systems from the ground up to fix issues like that.

yeah 6 teams of 4 pcs made at 6 different tables will vary widely in what they can and can't do. The caster/non caster divide being the bigest offender.

if they give the orc more HP and more to hit is it the same CR?

maybe you just don't like what we came up with... The only 'game' I want to play is D&D no one is pretending... I said I could read it both ways but think I know the intent... then people attacked me for having the ability to understand the confusion. maybe you should look at what we actually...

there is no reason a warlock can't pick something labeled a warlock cantrip unless you are using the new class (and even then that is confusing) yes but since the sheet says it's a different edition you understand it's not the exact same yeah cause in some cases it is a major change I guess...

so then why change it if it isn't a difference? so if I take a +10 to my str that is the same as a +1? How would you play 5e with no race and no class?

I doubt it... it's rolld20 add mod compaire to DC, it has attacks skills and the same stats. what on a 4e sheet looks diffrent? I guess bloodied value and Healing Surge Value? how? it has saving throws just different labels on them... I bet ANYONE looking for what to roll against a fire ball...

you do realize several of us still buy WotC products and are undecided on this new edition?

I mean if you look at a 3.5 or 4e and 5e sheet you see str dex con into wis and cha, hit points 2/3 of them have HD and where the exact details may change they are all roll 1d20 and compare to a DC> if you don't want to respect our opinions please leave us alone

except they have to update them in someway, at least for the classes that change what level they get subclass features at.

okay you got me... the change is STILL +1 but it is not the same +1

so you ignore more then half of what I say to down play as if I ONLY have 1 minor thing...

the thing is adding and rewriting are not the same thing. Yeah we added Artificer, and new feats and spells... but so far the playtest has to different degrees changed every single class, and every single feat. except every class every feat and multi spells... in 2014 even 'cutting edge' a...

I'm not sure that's true... I have been pretty clear I think it's a new edition and I have not proclaimed an exit at all

wait so you agree we need a name for the edition?

nope 1 definition... when you break with one set of PHB/DMG/MM and update to new ones

I asked why I should buy books that are already outdated... and you ignored that every class/subclass we have seen has been changed 'updated' so yeah, I think you can expect the ones that come out now will too

if official (club) games don't let you use the PHB you bought then that is a MAJOR hint it is a new edition no matter the words you use.

so that is why I am useing what we have used since I joined this hobby... 3e-3.5-4e-4e+ess-5e-what ever this is...