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Keterys, I salute your willingness to try both systems, and regret that you can't take advantage of 1-2-1-2's greater clarity. I'll try to manage to get by without your respect.

Keterys, why the snark?

Paradox, do you understand the point? Visually, C looks closer than A. By 1-1-1-1, A is closer than C. That's a disconnect between map and intuition.

I'd like to point out that I have no particular animosity toward those promoting/enjoying/enduring 1-1-1-1, and none toward the designers; it seems like a decision that will make a number of people fairly happy. (Except for Hong. He's the devil)

Nope.

I'm reminded of Willy Wonka and the cubes that look round.

I'm a debater. Doesn't win me, either keep playing 3.5e or poke at M&M for fantasy some more.

From the poll thread (since arguing on it is a bit off topic): Eyeballing is exactly my problem with 1-1-1-1. Hong: I've played Civ. I don't play it now.

Anyone with actual 4e experience able to judge whether hexes or offset squares would function without the problems 1-2-1-2 apparently will cause the system?

Hong: I don't play any of those games. Baberg: Well, clearly it DOES to me. I mean, heck, if we're throwing geometry out the window, why not go whole hog? Make red and black checkered squares. Red squares cost 2 movement points! Adds tactical complexity. Doesn't make any sense, but it doesn't...

When bothering with a grid (half of my D&D gaming is done on text games, where grids are mostly handwaved), I'm going to use 1-2-1-2. And if the houserules to make 4e work with 1-2-1-2 prove intractable, I'll try using hexes or offset squares. And if THAT doesn't work, then I'll shrug and turn...

Consider All lines are equidistant. That's just f'd up, man.

It strikes me that some of the issues here are ones of immersion, goals in the game, and so on. Me, I have at least somewhat of an immersive interest, so when mats and rules break from the gameworld, I have a problem with them, depending on severity. The contradictory results of 1-1-1-1 force...

How about 'movement = speed /2.5'? SPeed 30' = 12 Straight move = 2, diagonal = 3. It's really the same thing as 1.5-1.5, but some people are funny about whole numbers vs. fractions. If you do this, my suggestion is 'five foot step = 3 move step' and discard any unused movement. Might want...

I'm not the one postulating theories of spacetime at odds with reality. ;)

Everything I see on the grid is an abstraction. An abstraction serves a purpose. When it no longer serves that purpose, it's not a good abstraction. For me, and many others, a map and grid is a way to communicate what's going on in the world. There are certain simplifications made, such as...

Well, to extend my example: A man stands 50 feet from a line of 11 soldiers. All are equidistant to him. Another man stands 50 feet from the soldiers on the opposite side. All the soldiers are equidistant to him. The effect is, when I look at the grid, my instinctive understanding about...

I'm a little amused/astonished at how many people say 'well, gamers seem to be a good 5-10 years older, on average, then they were 5-10 years ago...' Um. Selection bias, just MAYBE? I'm 37. I love TT games. I love RP. I enjoy MMOs. There's a lot of flavor of games and gamer out there, and...

I wish I liked Unisystem's dice system more. I should poke at it again and see if I can warm up to it. Eh

There are ways to encourage balance. I've always found the Buffy RPG (Cinimatic Unisystem) model interesting... characters with less 'stuff' have a greater amount of, essentially, luck points. Which really helps capture the scrappy sidekick who somehow manages to survive all sorts of badness.