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I had forgotten about Supremacy. Loved that game back in the 80s.

Talisman, though I no longer have my 80's version. Cosmic Encounter Illuminati

I agree that the attempt to knock out should be declared in advance. We got rid of that asinine portion of the rule the first time we encountered it. That doesn't change the point, though. I can knock something out with a mace, putting it to sleep. Even if it has 1 hit point.

You don't need to be an expert, but you do need to be proficient. And it's still an important part of encounter design. None of that alters what I said. Just because players can turn an encounter from moderate to a TPK, does not mean that the difference between a really hard encounter(if the...

Yep. That's true. People are capable of dodging both.

A child. Not that it matters. The mechanical differences are not what the issue is. The mechanical differences are a different issue. Regardless of the mechanics, in-fiction they are the same creature. If you can knock one out, you can knock the other out.

Give me a break. If you can put it to sleep with a spell, you can put it to sleep with a mace. Minions are capable of being incapacitated.

You still need to be able to ballpark it. The line between really hard and TPK is razor thin.

It's not apples and oranges. At worst it's gala apples and granny smith apples, because destroyed applies to all of them. Further, minions can also be those types of creatures.

A holistic reading requires destroyed to include being knocked out, since tons of elementals, undead, etc. are destroyed and can be knocked out. To get some allowed to be knocked out like zombies and skeletons, yet others not be able to be knocked out like minions, isn't holistic. It separates...

Okay, but that's your personal thing. Not a thing of the game itself. Your personal feelings don't alter what is. They only apply to you. We have been told that the old rules are valid if a new rule hasn't been put into place.

Not really. If the rule isn't in the 5.5e DMG, the 5e DMG rule is still in effect. It's only if the rule changes, that the 5.5e rule is king. Removal isn't the same as change in their eyes.

That has never been what balance is defined as in RPGs. In RPGs, balance has and will always mean a range of balance, not perfect balance.

Sure it did. It just didn't intend that to be the default. You don't provide for something you don't intend to be a part of the game, and the 5e DMG provides for NPCs with PC classes.

There were NPC classes found in Dragon Magazines, but I don't recall any in the main books. And as you say, many who used those classes from the Dragon Magazines allowed the players to use them as well. My personal experience was that they were mostly used by players. That's anecdotal, though.

We never noticed that and would have just changed it had we seen it. :)

I missed that tangent. What the heck was the argument for it generating light?

He was notoriously inconsistent, wasn't he? I forgot about the sage, but that really doesn't alter that generally speaking, NPCs were just PCs run by NPCs.