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  1. Celebrim

    D&D 3.x Combining 3.0 and 3.5 - A Thread

    I think you are correct to import fixes to problems you have in 3.0e rather than importing 3.5e as a whole. The more I learn about what is actually different in 3.5e, the more I consider the whole thing a bad move. I feel no desire to give up horses occupying a 5x10 area. Yes, formalizing...
  2. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    You don't understand what I'm saying. Yes, the player has agency. But because he has agency, and because he for example lacks the mental or social or moral skills of the character he's trying to emulate, he will fail at being a believable version of that character. He won't have the...
  3. Celebrim

    It's been so long since the last GURPS edition, that the present day is now in the "future" tech level

    As a professional software developer, I am certain of few things more than I am certain of the fact that people are terrible at estimating how hard things are. We have no intuitive sense of what is hard or easy. We measure that based on how rare some skill is, or whether something is hard or...
  4. Celebrim

    It's been so long since the last GURPS edition, that the present day is now in the "future" tech level

    You hit on two things there but mostly just illustrated how counter intuitive probabilities are and why linear math is so much better at the table. First, it's not diminishing returns - it's actually huge returns. To understand why, let's look at some simple linear math from 1e AD&D. Let's...
  5. Celebrim

    It's been so long since the last GURPS edition, that the present day is now in the "future" tech level

    Well, basically everything. Probably the single biggest problem is that GURPS is an almost pure skill based system with the worst skill system ever designed in the history of gaming. That's the core problem. The fact that it violates every aspect of good skill system design but in particular...
  6. Celebrim

    It's been so long since the last GURPS edition, that the present day is now in the "future" tech level

    I tried to run a GURPS campaign once. It dampened all the excitement I had about the system, and taught me a lot about how to tell the difference between a well written system and one that plays well. I learn a ton from studying GURPS, but it produced very little gameplay. And that's my...
  7. Celebrim

    It's been so long since the last GURPS edition, that the present day is now in the "future" tech level

    I'm not at all convinced by this timeline. I feel we are not quite in TL8 yet, which in the version of GURPS I had was supposed to start around 2000, but where we are maybe having a hint we might reach if we don't slide into another Dark Age.
  8. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    One of the things that greatly annoyed me about every edition after 3e is that the monsters had removed from their stat blocks all the minor powers and skills that had to do with establishing how they could interact with other NPCs and were slimmed down to just entities that existed in combat...
  9. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    I let players make rolls to see if their characters can see through deception, but I don't force players to play their characters as deceived if they themselves aren't, simply because I enforce no rules on metagaming. I allow players to play their characters while under a compulsion for...
  10. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    Oh that. Yeah, I'm just getting warmed up. I haven't even had the need for an essay that can't fit in a single post yet. As I understand the term, railroading is set of techniques and yes in and of itself it is neither bad nor good. Some of those techniques are more artless than others, but...
  11. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    It's not. GM's should be conscious of all the different ways they could be potentially metagaming and conscious of why they are doing it. Railroading is unavoidable. You won't be able to prep for everything. You won't be able to preset the difficulty for every possible challenge. You...
  12. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    Thirty years of arguing RPG theory I've learned that some of the biggest misunderstandings come from the fact that someone heard some term of art somewhere and knew only from some context and whatever loan words were involved what the word meant and so evolved their own private definition. It's...
  13. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    Fully agreed, so why start the sentence with "But"?
  14. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    I have seen plenty of people argue that what he said was literally true. The GM is continually engaged in this process. Agreed, but it's that "open to their efforts" that I'm talking about. The GM is also rooting for the players. It's not really all that fun if the players can't resolve...
  15. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    I get what the poster is saying. But some people act as if what the poster said was literally true, and I think it's an important point that it isn't. And my point is that this is harder than it might first seem, and really almost impossible. What's important isn't that you never force what...
  16. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    Yes, we agree.
  17. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    Ok, yes, I did some chop busting in that and especially in that last paragraph. I confess I get really annoyed when someone tells me that they run a sandbox because it means low or no prep. It's like telling me that bricks don't weigh all that much. But on the core idea, what he said of: "I...
  18. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    LOL. I trying not to be insulting by this phrasing while still conveying my thought accurately. The problem is that I'm pretty sure a GM has enough agency that he can still keep players on a railroad while letting them choose to go on a different course. Indeed, your example of switching to...
  19. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    This is complicated by your limited understanding of how a GM can control players, but your intention in the above is I think good even if your strict definition isn't. Let's call it railroading when the GM wants to control what the players can accomplish or how they can accomplish it, and I...
  20. Celebrim

    NPC Deception/Persuasion and player agency

    Yes, I do. I think you are not understanding the conversation. No, failing isn't the only option. In fact, in the most common forms of railroading failure isn't an option. The most common employment of railroading is to prevent player or party failure because the GM perceives failure as not...
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