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If that "rankles a skill play GM", why was it included all the way back in 1e? It's not like we're talking about some weird obscure supplement or a late development in the wild and woolly days of Skills & Powers. I was given to understand--based on the claim that old-school systems are about...

Then...refuse to allow the players to do this? That's literally what I do whenever I GM Dungeon World....both because it's what the rules explicitly require, and because it's what I would always ask of my players whenever I am GM. You cannot "Roll Perception". You can observe your environment...

Okay. Why does equipment count as "not intrinsic of the character's elements"? Is the non-standard usage the primary component here, and the foregoing portion less so? Why are magic-user spells acceptable, but other kinds of character elements aren't? Not going to lie, this doesn't really...

Genuine question here. What is "player skill"? Like...what is it, what is the thing that is happening when one is displaying it? What is the thing one acquires by attempting it and failing to display it? What is gained through it? Because every time I've asked someone to explain the...

Are you sure? I have to be skeptical, because I'm telling white lies if I make arguments based on my personal experience, so the fact that this is achievable at all must be subject to skepticism.

So....4e mechanics, but with better presentation? I feel like you've dismissed this exact same proposal multiple times before...so it's strange to see you so confidently making it now.

4e did it. Even if you don't like the result, it proves that it can be done without this alleged "off the charts" effort.

But that literally was not the argument being made: This is not "every single NPC (of a certain type) uses X, therefore my character should be able to, too." This is "if any NPC (of a certain type) uses X, then my character should be able to, too." Your claim is a for-all type. His is a...

Sure, but IMO much more to the point, they gave a specific breakdown of exactly why they did so--and it is pretty much the same criticisms that have been brought up over and over and over again for decades. The system is fundamentally unbalanced in a way that makes it difficult to design...

So instead....they listened to....people who heard about the "D&D Next" playtest....on forums...? Your argument doesn't make any sense.

I assume this got cut off. If we are admitting this though, we are talking about a situation where there are concessions to practicality. With such concessions in play, we can't make arguments like the one I responded to. We instead need to have an argument about when it is okay vs not okay to...

As if they are even remotely the primary driver here. That blame belongs to me, and a couple of others.

I have, yes. Have you considered that it wasn't possible for them to know that? That they were taking the most reasonable path forward, and that they had correctly believed that what they originally did wasn't any different from previous editions, hence why they concluded that this was the...

Well see, now you're making a completely different argument. It's not "if an NPC can do it, I can too." It's now "if every NPC can do it, I can too." I wasn't responding to that argument, so why would you expect it to apply? As for the simple answer here: because making every NPC a perfectly...

No idea. I can only report the facts as they occurred. This is what happened. The designers listened to fan criticism before release, and they were literally told that what they did to respond to that was also unacceptable. You can dispute many things, but the events that occurred are what they...

Nnnnnope. Because that is, as stated, all of them hand-making their own thing. Inspiring others is not what a playtest document is for. It may be what a houserule document could theoretically achieve. A playtest document isn't for that. .....of course other than those things. That's... that's...

Well then, let me tell you the tale of Darth Wyvern the Golden. 4e was originally going to have a lot more flavor and setting information. They released an early preview showing a Wizard feat, "Golden Wyvern Adept". The feat was mechanically identical to the eventual Spell Accuracy feat we got...

Since Michaelangelo had the ability to paint the Sistine Chapel, our universe must be inconsistent because other people don't have that ability now? Since Michael Phelps had the ability to win 23 gold medals in the Olympics, our universe must be inconsistent because essentially all other people...

I completely agree. There has not been a system that used CR that was actually effective at achieving what CR claimed to achieve. But it is nice to have someone else agree to that.

Because, as literally noted in that post, I already did. I collected what data I could. It supported my claims. It did not support theirs. On ENWorld, where we have numerous reasons to be biased toward 3PP, 49.4% never or rarely get to use it. A clear majority see it less than half the time...