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THIS! So, this... Any chance we can get thread back on course? ;)

I'm not looking to re-write all the fighting styles, just to make GWF style balanced with the others.

Yep, it would fill niches pretty well, too. Paladin can be healer as well, with Bard support, or vice versa. Thief and Bard both have expertise, so skills would be good. Lore Bard gets extra skills as well. Paladin and Barbarian could both be melee builds. Thief and Bard could both be ranged...

LOL at least this one starts at 10! Have fun everybody. :D

I think I'm done with the Survivor series at this point. It's been fun and I'm glad I get rid of Tempest Domain, but its time to move on. Cheers. :)

In 5E, moving isn't an action.

Or the most FEARED to win. :D

Order of Elimintation: 1. Immortal (Mystic). Vote: 66 by @Leuenherz 2. Battle Smith (Artificer). Vote 135 by @Leuenherz 3. Divine Soul (Sorcerer). Vote 282 by @Omand 4. Tempest Domain (Cleric). Vote 378 by @DND_Reborn 5. Fiend Patron (Warlock). Vote 474 by @DND_Reborn 6. Way of the Kensei...

Looks more "Ranger" to me than Paladin, but to each their own.

It was well-protected. ;) But does that mean counting the number of downvotes alone, it was in last place and totally lost?

Yep, that was one point I will bring up later. ;)

Great actual example! Kudos! :) Ok, time for the questions: 1. It seems like the giant fish bird went first. If it had "tore up" the wizard instead, would he have survived? 2. What (if you recall) was the spell save DC (or approximately)? 3. How did you "grab it"? Was it a grapple test? Did...

After getting rid of Battle Master, Lore, Tempest and Immortal, I didn't really care much who won.

Yep, totally missed it! Thanks for taking the time and responding. 1) Speed - you say another issue, I say not. Being able to move faster than normal is a utility ability and we agree should be automatic, so a Wizard shouldn't have to roll for longstrider-- yet it is otherwise an "automatic"...

Talk about bad faith! :rolleyes: I give you reasons why my examples are utility abilities, and again you ignore them. You single out my last example, which I noted was not utility and added as an afterthought, but continue to dismiss the rest. So, if I hadn't added it as an afterthought...

PALADIN: OATH OF THE ANCIENTS WINS!!! @CleverNickName can add another image, I just like this one. :)

So your issue is Wizards aren't as good as the others at blasting stuff? Or is it the misconception some players have about how Wizards differ from Sorcerers or Warlocks, etc? Or is it something else?

No, I think you missed one maybe. #763? These are the correct current scores: Paladin: Oath of the Ancients 7 Rogue: Thief 5

I think the issue is we have VERY different ideas of what utility abilities are. I think all the previous examples you hand-waved away ARE utilities. Can a Wizard increase his speed as a class feature? He has longstrider perhaps, but why roll for it when the Barbarian can do it all the time...