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Like I said last time you mentioned this, I don't think this is quite true, unless you mean "gameable space" only in very mechanistic sense. In a game of fiction, the gameable space is the fiction, not just the rules. What is required is that fiction to be coherent and consistent enough, that...

So how does Torchbearer handle situations where the camp would be threatened by an already established opponent? Like if there was a bounty hunter or assassin after the party etc? Or even if just the generic type of threat was known? ("The Gloom Forest is known for its ravenous trolls.")

Why do you need to constrain it? A good GM will however have principles they follow to run the game fairly and consistently. By creating situations with meaningful decision points.

But you also generally want the characters to succeed and not to die. Or maybe you don't, but this goes back to earlier discussion about goals in narrativist games. And yes, the game tells you to advocate for such things, hence the writers' room. That is indeed a super viable way to play...

I'm sure it can. Piracy is illegal though, so by this logic these robotic buccaneers should be as well.

First, thank you for the information on the rules. They seem to be way more involved and specific than I imagined. I am however still somewhat confused what the camp event roll actually does though. I found this bit: "In the Torchbearer core book, you roll to determine whether a camp is a...

They are not objective in sense a that they produce predictably consistent results. Like here: Like does this seem "objective" to you? It is just a GM decision, seems pretty damn fiaty to me. Perhaps. But different printed games have different printed principles, some more explicit some...

You have been asked to cite the relevant rules several times; you haven't. What is the point of this? What is the point of bringing up a game mechanic as an example in the first post, but actually not provide the rule and keep people guessing for 258 pages and admonishing them for guessing...

Well, then it means that you certainly cannot be found with vision, as hidden gives you invisibility, and invisibility means you cannot be seen. 🤷

It doesn't actually say that though.

I just do not think this is true, especially with several of the things having been decided beforehand instead of as reactions to what the players say. It is real but still somewhat vague limitation to the GM's decisions, just like principles in narrative games. What you mean you don't? Wasn't...

Except "what would this person know" is part of the framework via which the GM decides what they say. I rather feel that as a player my focus is far more on what GM thinks of things in a game like Blades in the Dark where the GM is literally making up most of the stuff on the spot, and a part...

Not to mention that if this somehow happened, the alarm spell still would have done its job of giving the party an uninterrupted long rest.

Yes, it is somewhat subjective, but there still is a structure and principles that guide the decision making. Just like in narrative games for the GM deciding obstacles and consequences etc. I think it is wild to me and shows bias and inability to look things objectively if people cannot...

Right. If that is "GM fiat" then narrativist games are also full of GM fiat. I am not particularly concerned about specific definition of the term, but I wish people were at least consistent with it, instead of flipping it based on whether we are talking about their preferred style or not.

@hawkeyefan @zakael19 So what I found interesting that you both just went with the trap existing, and it's existence being a GM decision. So you wouldn't run "quantum traps" where the existence of trap is in superposition, and it will collapse into existence as a consequence of some roll...

It should have been "Was there a risk in the roll." So I am asking did the players roll some roll in the situation to discern the presence and/or nature of the trap, and if they did, what would have happened had they rolled badly? You said they gathered intel, so that's the roll I'm curious about.

@hawkeyefan But how did you decide there was a trap in the first place? @zakael19 Was there a risk in the roll for examining the safe in your Blades game?

Yes, they're quite similar. I think the clocks is a method of gamifying it and making it more concrete, though in the process some of the nuance might be lost. And of course in most games that use clocks, it is still GM who decides whether something ticks a clock or whether something else bad...

Thought experiment: Lets say the situation in the game is this. The PCs have infiltrated into a heavily guarded mansion/dungeon/castle/facility/etc. Their goal is to steal gold/money/etc. They have managed to find a safe/treasure chest/etc. There are still active guards/monsters/etc in the...