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Well, apparently you do since you have decided that "destroyed" doesn't mean killed but some other form of death that is somehow undefined but still exactly the same as dying. 🤷

Just a point about the length of genre fiction. The thing is, before 1980, there was just so little genre fiction at all. Pre-1980, most years you were lucky to get a couple dozen genre titles. At least at the novel length. You quite easily could read every single fantasy novel published in...

Another thought I had about space navies. Physics are going to play such a huge role. The presumption that an enemy could approach from any direction depends so much on how the ships move. In something like Star Wars or Star Trek, where the ships effectively "teleport" to a location, sure...

Oh the irony. The only reason you have any leg to stand on is an insistence on a very specific interpretation of the rules that is not actually supported anywhere else in the rules. The rule is, players can decide if their attacks kill a target. Full stop. There is no specific rule that...

Only when edition warring.

Ahh, edition warring. How I missed thee. @clearstream, feel free to have to last word because this level of sophistry is just beyond me.

Again, that is wrong. A minion is only "destroyed" AFTER it's HP are reduced to zero. There is no other way to "destroy" a minion. Thus the PC's would always have the choice of killing a minion or not. There is nothing in the description of minions that contradicts the point that the PC can...

Is this meant to argue with me? If they are interchangeable, then the rules for PC's not killing something would be in force.

Your character has 50 HP. He takes 5 points of damage. What happened? Same character takes 49 points of damage. What happened? What narrative can you give for either effect that cannot be used interchangeably with the other damage? For something to be diegetic, it has to be actually seen by...

The difference is, we can twist "destroyed" into some sort of mechanical meaning that suits a specific interpretation that is not supported otherwise. After all, the specific rule is that the player can always choose (in 4e) not to kill something. But, if we insist that "destroyed" is some...

Again, you're insisting that I'm stating a preference. I have zero problems with the mechanic. The mechanics are perfectly fine. Good grief, I have and do play D&D for a very, very long time. I obviously don't have a problem with the mechanics. My problem is this interpretation of the...

To be fair, I just checked the 4e PHB, and it appears that you can choose not to kill things with energy attacks. I stand corrected. Page 295 says you can knock creatures unconscious when you reduce it to 0 or less HP. Which is the rule that over rules the Minions description, as it is an...

See, again, this is the whole 6 impossible things before breakfast. HP make zero sense. AC is an abstraction that makes virtually no sense. Rounds, turns, all make no sense. Stop motion combat makes no sense. Classes do not exist in the game world. Skills do not exist in the game world -...

Again, not to sound like a broke record here, but, so much of this depends on the assumptions of the setting. The notion of mobility, for example, depends on how things are actually traveling. If you have anti-gravity effects, then size no longer is realistically a limit. Or, another example...

To be fair, I know it's true in 5e. I was more or less presuming that 5e simply carried forward the 4e rules. 3e had wonky rules for subdual, but, again, you couldn't do it with energy damage. 2e and earlier did not allow for non-lethal attacks in any form (other than against, strangely...

That's actually not true. You cannot choose to not kill something with a fireball (or any energy attack). You ALWAYS kill if you reduce anything to zero HP with an energy attack. The minion rules require you to ignore the specific - a PC can always choose to have the attack not kill - in...

Like I said, fair enough. It's a bit of a stretch too far for me. But, then again, it is very much in keeping with most of the criticisms of systems that I've seen over the years. 6 impossible things before breakfast is perfectly fine, but that seventh one? Hoo Boy, that's a bridge too far...

Yes, well, as I said, I've only sort of tangentially followed the discussion. But, don't they discuss their discomfort in terms of colonialist narratives? But, in any case, like I said, not liking minions as a mechanic is fine. I don't really get it, but, whatever floats your boat. I mean...

So, let me get this straight. My PC kills fifteen orcs with a fireball, and that's perfectly, morally acceptable. My PC kills fifteen orc minions with a fireball and that's morally bad? That's some REALLY fine hairs to be splitting. Back in the AD&D days, a fighter with a high strength could...

My honest guess for Dark Sun? They are going to punt on it entirely and leave it up to individual tables. They are going to present the setting without any actual moral issues - just the barebones facts - and dodge it completely. Which is going to lead to all sorts of criticisms of vanilla...