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It almost needs to be a focus of the adventure/campaign. I know it was always odd in my PF1 days running into random traps. It was always detect/disarm or get whacked rolls. There wasnt much interesting about them. Eat some resources, rinse and repeat. So, yeah if its like the above, I can...

Oh, absolutely. The social checks are in fact to get that mother to be helpful despite her main concerns. Thats usually by combining the problems and convincing her helping the PC is helping herself. Before she can get there though, she needs to be open to working with the PCs, having faith in...

Im an "NPCs should work like PCs" weirdo, but I get what you are saying. My issue is folks thinking they can stack the deck and just push NPCs around. So, its usually change NPC disposition for me, but not free info action acquirement, but my method is very similar to yours. I'm a big fan of...

I think that has a lot to do with how the system is developed. In 3E where PC A has a use rope +3 and PC B who has use rope +30, yeaaaah... PF2 uses skill proficiency and feats which is like the worst of both worlds. Though, with bounded accuracy of 5E you can actually bridge that gulf in a more...

I've encountered some folks who dont like the use of skill systems and feats. Part of the reason why is it effects both sides of the screen. The player might think doing something is not possible unless the character has invested in said thing. The more a particular action is outlined in the...

Right, if the player had described it like heroically or action film like, id been more cool with it. Though, it was more like, "how much? 4D6 damage? Yeah, ill just swan dive down there because its faster" That im not so cool with.

This is a good example of how folks may view the game differently. On one hand you have actual first hand experience and are viewing the response from simulation viewpoint, where as, the players maybe viewing it from action flick immersion. Using the rule set as the arbiter between the two.

I think there is a bit of over-exaggeration by both it doesn't matter to anyone and that it impacts everyone. I'd like to see folks discuss more about what is helpful and what is needed other than wholesale writing off the DMG.

Right, like you cannot assume skill play is not narrative. It's about where the focus, the purpose, of the game is. Not to indicate any other style lacks completely skills or narrative.

Sure, as long as the puzzle challenge for the player and not the character remains at the fore front. Often times, its no longer the case in neo-trad games which is the cause of friction. For example, a narrative game player might join a skill play group and be disappointed. Not because the game...

Yes, ive mentioned that the inference of not skill play focus isnt no skill involvement at all. Its just not the sole focus of the playstyle. Its like suggesting that narrative games focus on the narrative and other games dont have any narrative because they are not titled narrative games. That...

It's not about the skills in particular, its the focus of the challenge of the game. In this case, focusing on challenging the player, not the character to solve puzzles, traps, survival sim problems. That could manifest in any type of action game to game, and if its not a main focus of said...

Right, which is cool you have two ways of playing. I think the development over time was folks asking questions like, "if we are gonna spleunk into these death pits over and over again, why dont the characters have any tools for dealing with that?" Which the answer became more capable characters...

I mean, why are you a power tool owning picnic table builder without your tools? I think thats a big part of the disconnect. Folks think of their PCs as experienced spelunkers and adventurers. Why are they constantly without their tools for the job?

That reminds me of one session I had. Most of the party was on the roof of a keep about 40 ft tall. They were engaged in a battle when another member of the party was on the ground at the door of the keep being attacked. So, suddenly there was an urgent need to get down there and help. One...

Agreed, but I think the topic deserves examination for its merits within good faith as well as its common bad faith pitfalls. I dont mean to disparage skill play, im just stating my nostalgia kick for it in limited but fulfilling packages. I understand for some folks they take it in more...

I hate to say it, but I think the OP poisoned the well by assuming "GM-may-I" is a part of skill play in the title. It can be, and is a valid complaint, but I see that more as a function of how a GM operates as opposed to it being a center piece of skill play. It was mentioned "good faith" is...

Tolkien, really. Humans had it rough(er) and elves and dwarves could do cool things. The game wasnt entirely top to bottom skill play focused, that was more an aspect folks grabbed onto. As more and more players wanted to move to the cooler stuff that elves and dwarves could do, skill play...

Its interesting becasue this kind of ability is something that rankles a skill play GM. They complain about abilities, skills, and magic that allows skill play style items to be bypassed. Which is why there is likely a thousand traps behind the hidden door revealed by that elf. Again, the game...

Ohhhh great pancake block! Wirfs is a freak though!