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Great post. I'll offer an alternative explanation although it's more convoluted than yours and I'm not sure it's more true. The reward of roleplaying is either in challenge or in expression, and it's a social reward. A lot of people who claim to be immersionists are really interested in...

I think the permanence of stuff is such a big deal that the tables relationship towards it creates fundamentally different modes of play. Roads to Rome: What Brennan Lee Mulligan does. Essentially a mix between quantum ogres and responsiveness with more emphasis on the quantum ogres...

Yeah that's exactly what I mean you've got the nail on the head. And yeah my example was of a generative consequence. I disagree rather strongly with Vincent. I'm not saying the phenomena he's talking about didn't occur but I think he's misdiagnosing it. (the following comes across as ranty...

I think a lot of what clearstream is saying may be applicable if you focus only on failure and ask if it's generative or reductive. Example generative: Thief is trying to open the vault to get to the gold inside. They roll a failure and so they open the vault but villain is waiting for them...

I was thinking of Type A as having causal effects not related to character action but I'm conflating a load of things. There's the trigger. When we roll. Whether the roll is determining the effect of a characters action or other stuff, or both. How much the consequences are pre-established...

I'd put it in the no-myth category as far as super structure goes and its resolution is probably closer to type A. I'd go so far as to say that Burning Wheel and Underworld are the two primary texts from which modern Narrativism descends, with Burning Wheel being the most influential in terms of...

It's an interesting topic. In the type of play I do, it's not that you're never introducing anything new, it's that the criteria for introducing new stuff is heavily constrained. I think I've written about this type of structure before but to lay it out again. step one: create a cast of...

Your analysis of the two types is spot on but for type B it's more accurate to say that the player who has authority over the trigger is the one who calls for the roll (or not). Sorcerer uses type B resolution and the trigger is (1) 'someone does something that conflicts with someone else's...

This is an interesting question. As a group we're following along with the fiction and our aesthetic agenda attenuates us to the broader meaning, including the consequences that follow. In terms of basic functional play I think @The-Magic-Sword is correct. Erika has to respond in some way...

I don't think she could ignore the revelation or she could but at that point play becomes outright dysfunctional. Otherwise we're pretty much in agreement. And yeah his thoughts on system should be totally ignored or at least contextualised. He's working within the 2E tradition and they only...

I'm a big advocate for having fixed stuff behind the screen but I think your point still stands. Being totally transparent and open on how the GM makes decisions puts the game as a whole in context.

Isn't that already the core of Narrativist design or do you think people are missing something.

So I'd call it OC play as well. What's interesting is that Brennan is flat out telling a character about a revelation they had, crossing loads of lines but it turns out those lines don't actually matter much when the group is on board. Anyway I see why he's held in high esteem. On the way...

I'm repeating my central thesis a lot but there's one more example I want to throw out. https://www.polygon.com/24105875/worlds-beyond-number-narrative-style-adventure About half way through this article there is an editor note and after that a paragraph beginning "a case in point comes...

I want to walk back some of what I said earlier and talk about an imaginary example instead (well an example kind of based on some of my OC play) We're playing a trad type game, say Savage Worlds. There's Flashback, Shadow Song and the GM. It's a superhero game and Flashback and Shadow song...

To expand a bit on my earlier comments. I said it wasn't about control and I really don't think it is. You can mess with the players backstory, their character, whatever you want, as long as you do it in a way that 'gets it.' With most OC players they want you to rain down a world of ruin...

Probably the best approach is just to say you want your character to feel more challenged. 'My character gets everything he wants a bit too easily. I'd like it if things were harder on him. In a lot of stories the characters really have to go through the ringer, I'd like a bit more of that.'...

To me that explains everything. If you're on the Gamist/Sim thing then the GM must adjudicate as they will or the whole thing falls apart. This really is a creative agenda clash. I do have a question about the Dwarf thing though. If you'd approached the girl, all tongue tied and awkward. Then...

I reflected on this a bit more. I'd cede to the player in so much as I could but there's a point where it would just lead to the breakdown you mentioned. I was thinking of a player where I know we're mostly on the same page. There are people you play with where both ceding or not is going to...

Yeah it's an issue of shared artistic goals, whether we're on the some page. I doubt the player is trying to subvert the wife or retroactively change her personality, that's just how you see it, not how it is. Which is a problem with all art and shared artistic vision. People are going to have...