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Yeah this is it. A ton of the criticism is about not having an equal/fair say in the outcome

That gave me a lot to chew on. I read through the threads and saw many of the same basic issues brought up. How about this: We (our side) have very strict jobs regarding how we view the fiction and what we do with that and those jobs don't cross over to other players. There's no consensus...

I actually don't think me, you or Micah care about agency at all. As it's conceived of by many of the Narratavists in this thread. I'm still trying to figure out a way of describing what we do care about. Our basic loop of play is something like 'constrained positioning creates outcomes which...

Being able to answer that question with clarity, about any decision made by anyone, is really at the core of understanding what we're doing. Or at least it would enable us to communicate better. Although maybe a lot of people don't need to understand because it's an intuitive thing or at a...

@Manbearcat I'm taking an extreme position to highlight what's fundamental. Yeah if I was actually doing the set up for RotJ I'd have a clock where the Empire wins but presumably there would be ways to disrupt it or at least change the result of the outcome so the entire rebel fleet wasn't...

That sounds spot on as my kind of 'default' approach to play. You're describing it how I would (and do) describe it if I'm giving an overview.

The short answer is, yeah totally agree with you, there needs to be sufficient no-myth space. Or backstory can't lead to totally deterministic outcomes all the time. Not sure I would frame it that way though but then we're getting into the aesthetics of resolution systems.

Ah I've been using it differently. I've been using it to mean GM decisions but especially GM decisions related to the outcome of a stated character intention (or conflict, they're slightly different things). So to go right back to the start. The player sets an alarm with the INTENT of...

Oh wait, ok I get you. Both are GM decisions but the first one is a binding decision that the second decision must take into account. Can this series of decisions essentially resolve chunks of situation, yeah they can and the fact they are 'binding' is what makes this possible. And yeah I...

That must be true though no? each GM has a different decision criteria.

I consider No-myth + fail forward as an entirely different mode to situation play + conflict resolution. I got back into role-playing about 2007 and started using no-myth + fail forward to what was essentially genre sim. I played with different groups and spent maybe 2010 to about 2019 doing...

It's more fundamental than that. You're resolving conflicts between elements in the situation. The TB2E mechanic is triggered off intent and is only resolving a conflict if you really squint. They're not really comparable. Resolution on a different level of granularity would look something...

@Manbearcat This went super long, if you don't have the time to read it that's ok. I find writing this type of stuff out helps me with y own clarity of thought. In what follows I'm going to talk about Narrativism and disregard Gamism entirely. I'm going to (hopefully) answer your questions...

Well the play cycle I describe also includes how I imagine Pedantic and Crimson play but the specific implementation, procedures and focus are going to be different. Me and you (Pemerton) could, I imagine, play role-master in this style and probably have a good Narrativist time of it. Could we...

That's Crimsons (and my and Pedantic and Micah's) point though. And Abduls as well really. Abdul said: However, that degree really rests heavily on a shared understanding of the principles, agenda, and practices of play! THIS is a key insight in the evolution of RPG practice. In fact...

HOW TO HIRE ASSASSINS I won't bash no-myth here but there is an issue. The issue is that the following three things are radically different at the deepest level (1) Adventure path play (2) no-myth play (3) Situation play. The s in situation is to denote a technical term, it has a very specific...

I've been using it to refer to making decisions based on the fiction that give or heavily influence outcome authority. So I mostly mean unreliable currency. http://lumpley.com/index.php/anyway/thread/502 But I might have drifted my usage a bit. Enhanced potential for seemingly arbitrariness...

To circle back a bit, I think the mode here is important. I'm finding myself becoming more free with fiat and more exacting in my extrapolation of what exists in terms of the fictional circumstance. I think one of the big differences though is that you don't need to keep hidden information...

Was that because you lacked the contextual knowledge when playing Rolemaster? I started with Vampire 2E in like 94 or something and I would have really liked a whole book on robust fictional positioning procedures. It would have clarified a whole of things it took blood and sweat to learn. It...

You can go as douchy as you want, I won't take offensive. It can be easier to communicate that way because you don't have to spend huge chunks of time trying to figure out ways to couch stuff and it makes communication more legible. I always feel a bit bad responding as well because you put a...