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Perhaps this will help in the discussion you are having. In my Living World Sandbox campaigns, referee responsibility is implicit in every carefully prepared procedure and explicitly defined mechanic that I use. My setting is constructed using detailed procedures, including random tables...

That's because that advice was Player Handbook. From Page 2. Although it argued that it is Mike Carr's approach, however. Playing a PC as a Pog was a thing, but roleplaying as in acting was just as prevalent back then as it is now. Most of the time players were themselves with a couple of...

This is more about player agency, using Burning Wheel and my living world sandbox campaigns as examples. But yes, it involves a lot of minutiae about Burning Wheel.

That sounds like an important subtype of character agency, and it is distinctly different from how I handle it. I only use mechanics that allow me to adjudicate the actions players attempt as their characters. I don't concern myself with whether these mechanics produce an interesting game...

Ah thanks. That folder has my inspiration Pad PRO Tables for the Midkemia Press City book. One of the better city random encounter tables out there. If you code it up. A couple of month after I made this for myself Midkemia press released an app doing the same thing.

So if I understand you correctly you are considering the following list. Players acting for their character (meta) Players acting as their character (character) Players playing a game that has nothing to do with their characters. (your addition) What things in RPGs you consider falling under...

In your case the issue Excellent Midkemia? I love the first four books and every time I reread them I am reminded how bits and pieces of them drifted into my Majestic Wilderlands. But did I reference Midkemia somewhere in my post or pictures? Just curious because I don't recall doing so.

I replied to you because Brendan had just said he felt his framing of sandbox play was being diminished, in a discussion with you. That tells me people are still talking past each other, because there hasn’t been a shared understanding of the assumptions behind how agency functions in play. From...

I’m on board with building shared understanding around terminology. That’s what I’ve been doing by distinguishing between meta-agency and character agency, and showing how different frameworks prioritize them. But you still haven’t addressed my question: who or what exactly are you critiquing...

That question doesn’t reflect what’s actually been going on. People were talking past each other because they were working from different assumptions about what kind of agency matters, not because one group was trying to deduct agency from the other. If you’re genuinely trying to understand, I’d...

Just to be clear, you’re repeating a criticism that’s already been addressed, both by me and others. We’ve acknowledged that “maximal agency” is relative to creative goals, system structure, and how one defines agency in the first place. No one’s been making that broad claim for quite a while...

That kind of framing shows a lack of consideration for the creative goals of the person you're responding to. What counts as meaningful agency depends on those goals. If your model of agency is tied to one set of assumptions, and theirs is tied to another, telling them they have “less agency”...

Also, the pre-game to establish the Initial Context in my living world sandbox campaigns is an example of meta-agency. The player are not acting as their character during that. They are proactively doing worldbuilding* with me to carve out a starting place for their character in the setting...

Sure I will let one my players explain. Initial Context: The party is crossing the Golden Pass into the Southlands to scout out rumors of Dark Elf activities in the Forsaken Desert. They stayed the night in the village of Hawksleigh. Also note, most of this is handled through first-person...

Quoting my last post, for emphasis: And yet, here we are again, with you repeating your point about fictional causation, as if I hadn’t already acknowledged it, summarized it fairly, and clearly stated that your conclusions make sense within your premise. That was the entire point of my...