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where did I do that? I'm saying that right now there is no evidence (demonstrated by both companies playtests that one is really closer to 5e than the other. So, it's dishonest (deceptive) for KP to say otherwise.

we agree on this. That's why I said I think the argument is dishonest, not the company. People (and companies) are allowed to screw up every once in a while.

M-W defines "dishonest" thusly (and I don't prefer M-W but at least they're easy to find lol) 1 obsolete : SHAMEFUL, UNCHASTE 2 : characterized by lack of truth, honesty, or trustworthiness : UNFAIR, DECEPTIVE being incorret is not the only definition of dishonest...

I don't see how this is true. I'm not objecting to them promesing something about an unfinished product. I object to them stating as if fact it was, that their game will be closer to 5e, when all current evidence points to it being really similar to OD&D. I don't know how many times I repeated...

sure it's opinion/marketing, but that doesn't make it less distateful (IN MY OPINON :p ). My point, andthe point of most people that I see here agreeing with me is that KP is a well respected company in the community, that has a lot of good product and good reputation. So they should focus on...

I get what you are saying, but I prefer to still refrain to atribute that part to malice, because that's not obvious enough to me yet, and the obvious part is still pretty bad to me.

well, duh. Do I really have to say that I'm expressing my opinion every time I do it? I thought it was pretty obvious when I started the post stating that I didn't really see a difference, and not with "there is no difference". And thanks for the dictionary copying, but yes, in my opinion...

I don't really think that's what they wanted to say with that part of the anouncement. Sure, you can read it that way because the phrase was badly worded, but I give them enough credit to assume they are not just blatanly lying to us in such a dumb way.

I don't think snarf was saying what you think they are saying. I hope snarf knows they will not keep publishing 5e....

100% it's a table problem (I don't even know if it is really a problem per se). I'm just sharing why I rarelly use 3pp, not trying to give a community wide diagnosis. My players are my childhood friends, asking them not to badger me is as useful as asking Snarf to post only 2 paragraphs when...

I don't really see the difference here. Maybe my definitions are off, but saying your game will be the spiritual sucessor to 5e, while implying OD&D will not, coupled with the fact that both playtests are pretty similar is a dishonest argument. Again, that does not make KP a dishonest company, I...

None of us is disputing this... in fact, stating that this point is obvious is part of our point....

mine are absolutelly looking for the broken stuff... the little bastards.

I really think they should pivot to "KPs interpretation and evolution of 5e" because that at least sounds appealing. They can't stay on the same discourse from the OGL debacle, the industry changed after that, so they should change their argument too.

My problem with 3pp is that in my groups they tend to "open the floodgates". If I allow one 3pp product, all the g'dam players will start bothering me to use some broken stuff they saw :p

Maybe people are thinking we are calling KP dishonest, when we are really calling their argument dishonest. There is a difference.

I've said this before, but maybe it was lost in the conversation.... I don't think they are saying there will never be a printed D&D book. They are saying there will never be a 5e book. And that's obvious and expected. What I take ofense to is (beyond focusing on talking about other companies...

PREACH!

yes, what I personally want them to do. :p

Oh, we will manage to war over something....