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Big picture/fine detail isn't the only place where simulationists might grimace with 4E. Speaking for myself, I also look for consistency between the rules. And consistency between the rules and a plausible/assumed fantasy world. For example the NPCs should behave in ways that are at least...

Maybe they are insane. Something's missing here. If people will pay 5,000 gp for an item, but they can only sell it to the faceless merchants for 1,000, then what's to stop a player from putting out the word that they'll buy said items for 2,000 and sell it for 4,000? It seems to me to be a...

But if the rule is there for game balance, then I think one is in somewhat of an awkward posistion to try to defend it based on versimiltude. If the rule were not arrived at through a reasonable analysis of "simulation" type stuff, then why pretend that it satisfies that kind of gamer? The...

You make a number of points that I think are fair. The problem is that the context of this was not "1:5 can be justified". It was "you're rejecting 1:5 because you are thinking anachronistically". So the basis of this debate was not that *there exists* a system that makes 1:5 plausible, it...

The comparison is made to a wedding ring. The custom, in the US at least, is that people don't look for bargains on wedding rings. Someone earlier in the thread talked about "conspicuous consumption" and added some details. These circumstances don't seem to be a good fit for a +1 sword...

A book I have called "Western Warfare in the Age of the Crusades" paints a somewhat less grim picture than what you have here. Chainmail in 14th c. England was worth about 2 oxen. Swords seem to me to actually be fairly cheap, there's an internet resource that handles this - though there are...

No, I'm assuming (based on labor and goods prices for 3E since I haven't seen those in 4E yet) that the costs of such transactions would be reasonable. 5,000 gp of bribes, security, etc. is not reasonable IMO. I'm not aware of any DM that has ever charged a 50% luxury tax on all magic items...

You mean every fighter of 3rd level and above would have a captured merchant vessel? I don't think the 1:5 rule is confined to just items worth as much as a ship (in fact, it's not if you look at the published table). Given the amount of magic goodies possessed by a typical NPC, based on level...

The 1:5 rule in 4E is unconditional. There's no discussion of what role social standing or any of that plays. The adventurers, who often perform tasks for nobles in many people's campaign worlds, could certainly get the grateful noble to barter on their behalf. And many PCs in many campaigns...

This makes no sense to me. I'm not sure what you mean but my calculations made no assumptions about finding a buyer for an item for free. But I'm not assuming that at all. I'm not saying that a merchant has to buy a magic item for the 10,000 gp that it's worth and turn around and sell if for...

Since when does anything have to be *exact* in order for one to legitimately question the 500% markup situation? And since when do DnD characters in the average campaign have any of the social limitations of real life history? I can arm myself in platemail and sword, go out and kill a bunch of...

But then I think it's misleading to count Rome as a "gargantuan" city when it was no longer the largest of the cities of Italy. Compared to London of the same time period? Certainly not compared to Constantinople, Alexandria, etc., I would not call Medieval or Renaissance era Rome...

If by "medieval" you mean that the implied setting of DnD is historical medieval Europe than I would disagree, and list a number of obvious differences, let's say elves (or, of more obvious relevance, the mercane). These differences IMO are substantial and would impact even this particular...

IME it takes me about 1 day of gaming with a DM that does this sort of thing before every reasonably intelligent player at the table knows what's going on. AFAIK the point of narravist style gaming is not to trick the players into thinking that they're playing a simulationist style game. Since...

So you say. You talked about what a player "should" be doing, for example, and a bunch of other things that I tried to address. This strikes me as more posturing than argument given the lack of specifics. Actually I didn't quote anyone but you. Those statements I made based on the...

Maybe I did miss your point, but I thought I addressed it. The whole idea of "the DM's responsibility to make sure encounters are of appropriate level" was never explicitly stated in 3E, and I have yet to see such a quote in 4E. Some people take the EL guidelines as some sort of mandate about...

You're equating that to 400% profit? Seems to me like there are other "costs of doing business" that aren't being considered. I think a fair back-of-the-envelope calculation for a magic item merchant would be to settle on his standard of living, say 200 gp/month or whatever. Then factor in...

In other words, you would expect the 1/5-7/5 rule to hold up to a simulation where the roles of the players and NPCs change around? That's a concept, AFAICT, that I've heard many times won't be valid in 4E. The players in your hypothetical example will fail at being merchants for the same...

The DM's job is to hand out magic items to players? I hope the 4E DMG makes that clear. I thought the idea of getting away from the "Christmas tree" effect was that this balance sort of thing wasn't as crucial. If a good DM needs to hand out treasure without any regard for the setting, then...

Why is the magic item economy any different than the economy for any other expensive item? Because it's magic? Yes, imagining a port with a bunch of galleons for sale just floating there seems silly too. Doesn't seem to me like a rule is necessary to prevent that, just some common sense and...