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If you knew the system I was referring to, you'd know that the high-level fighter had the option of multiple attacks and three different means of doing extra damage (Smash, the asterisked numbers on the hit rolls chart, and Weapon Mastery). And yet he would never be stronger than the strongest...

Sure I can. In my favorite version of D&D, no PC, no matter how high level, can have an ability score exceeding 18. Just like NPCs. The PCs might be more skilled, but they're still fundamentally human.

The mighty warrior using power moves is ONE archetype for the fighter class, not the only one. The acrobatic combatant has long been another of the archetypes that the fighter class seeks to model. Look at the 2E fighter kits: both the gladiator and the swashbuckler had access to the Tumbling...

Look at the original quote that got this started: That is not a merely good combatant who wins by trickery or luck. That is a highly-trained killing machine, like a Jet Li character. I think the archetype described is as much the fighter's as the rogue's; make it a Rog/Ftr and call it a...

I certainly wasn't saying that. If you look, I posted NUMEROUS archetypes that I think the rogue class can be used to represent -- which is why I don't think the class by itself is any single archetype. That's not the same as saying it's an everyman class. "Pickpockets, burglars, muggers, con...

In terms of archetypical rogues, I don't know that there is such a thing. The rogue class abilities can be used to create characters representing many archetypes. The 2E PHB mentioned Reynard the Fox, Ali Baba, and Robin Goodfellow (aka Puck) as inspirations for the class. I'm not familiar...

That's interesting. So warhammers and heavy maces would be mechanically equivalent in your system?

The rogue you describe is a master combatant. Therefore, I would suggest that Rog/Ftr is the proper combination to model the rogue you describe. You also have a much narrower view of the fighter than I do. I wanted to make an agile reach-weapon fighter for 3.5. Using Tumble, taking advantage...

I have never seen a critical fumble table that required that the PC be under attack. All that is required is that the PC be attacking a target. Now, if fumbles simply provoke AOOs, then indeed they do require someone else to be attacking you for it to matter.

I am with Whizbang, here. I absolutely hate them and never use them in games I run. In games in which I'm a player, I'd gladly offer to give up the chance to ever crit in exchange for immunity to fumbles. 1) They are far too frequent. I have fired hundreds of bullets and hundreds of arrows...

Yes, it's possible to play an evoker, but it's not the only school you can specialize in. No, I take that back. An evoker is much less effective than a fighter against powerful foes (though better against mooks).

I liked it because it meant you couldn't advance in levels by sitting in your tower and selling potions. You had to go out and earn XP the hard way and face some real risk of dying. No risk = no reward.

Depends, of course, on which splatbooks you allow. For my campaign, I allowed all of the feats from CAdv and CWar; I was much more restrictive on the spells and feats from CArc and CDiv. The balance would, I think, have been about right if the players had been powergaming to an equal extent...

Of course they aren't; they're not zombie-fighting builds, they're versatile builds that are still primarily rogues. They're far more effective in this situation than a one-trick-pony would be. A pure fighter still does better, but these guys are WAY more effective than a rogue who expects to...

Not with TWF, which is a much better option for the rogue than for the fighter. In MarauderX's game, the very non-optimized Rog17/Clr3 routinely out-damages everyone else, with 8 attacks per round (6 base, Haste, Opportunist, and 4 of those at his top attack bonus) for 10d6+10 damage each. The...

No, but you could quite well have the architects of those mechanics, who happen to be heavily involved in 4E, arguing that they didn't sell as well as they could have because they were add-ons to a system, rather than a foundation. Whether Bo9S restored balance or distorted it would depend...

BECMI offered much closer parity than did 1E or 2E. I did not see martial types being overshadowed by wizards in either BECMI or 2E, because of the very slow speed of leveling after 7. IME, most actual gameplay took place around levels 4-7. And most players avoided the single-classed wizard...

The various classes are sets of abilities, not archetypes, at least as I see them. By combining them and selecting appropriate feats, you can reflect an archetype that you like. I was certainly not envisioning Power Attacking with a greatsword as this rogue's normal modus operandi -- but it...

It sounds like the model is "Everybody will do everything." Everybody will have stuff to do when a trap comes up. Everybody will have stuff to do in diplomatic encounters. Everybody will have stuff to do in every round of every fight. That's because letting your friends have a chance to shine...

I'd add this: d) the rogue is so focused on Sneak Attack that he is totally ineffective in any other means of combat. And d) isn't a necessary condition of playing a generally rogue-ish PC. The high-Dex TWF dagger-throwing specialist vs. zombies does pretty well, as does Rog6/Ftr2 with 14 Str...