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I think that this bit of design home truism (leave it all to the players) is very, very questionable indeed. For starters, I don't think this matters as much as you make out here. You can trip over your scabbard in totally different contexts, use an item in totally different ways, and if you...

Which would make your group Monte Haul for sure, but we all were. Such a move is Monte Haul ++ (but surely you're already munchkins after the wiping out the hit point bags in the G series if your group was typical). I'd suggest that the "fairness and earnt drow treasure" is a bit of a furphy...

I don't think that necessarily has to be the case. For example, Baldurs Gate 2 sets up a scenario whereby you have to earn some huge amount of money in order to ransom a hostage of the thieves guild. How you earn that money is up to you, and is bouyed by a choice of many adventure hooks to...

I disagree, because group dynamics are fairly constant IME, unless you have a very special group, and decide that Brian's fun to be around but he can't play at my table because he makes too many jokes about silly ways to use magic items. I'd suggest that it's a DM problem and a game culture...

There's a sliding scale, as you well know, Hussar. An intelligent sword with a phobia of blood or an amulet which controls caterpillars is whimsy that is usable. The Cloak of Blending 3 speed is, as you say, not designed to be used. And of course it's subjective as to what is amusing to you...

I don't think it's that it's harder to codify, just what proportion of your splat/monsters/rules/adventures/NPCs/setting it represents. For instance, if you use the late 2E spell compendiums and encyclopedia magicas, there's many thousands of spells and magic items, and the fact that some are...

You can play that card if you like, but it's just identifying how the culture of the game has changed, and how much has been lost. The badwrongfun according to the majority is the whimsy, not the mainstream "my campaign is serious" crowd. As far as BadWrongFun goes, WOTC has written essays on...

BryonD, you represent the concensus view that has crept into the game's culture like a thief in the night. The founders of the game knew that D&D is fundamentally something of a lark, and that creativity came hand in hand with in-jokes and random madness "just because". You represent how far...

That's fine. The thread is at least partially about "why would you want to ban whimsy, anyway, when it creates a lot of the memories people cherish." I think that when it comes to whimsy in D&D, the accepted wisdom (ban it, purge it, not in my campaign itz iz being teh serious business mang)...

Let's be honest here - official stuff in core rulebooks also runs that gamut from great to crappy. "Official product" status is no guarantee of quality, just as "homebrew" is no guarantee of crappy. It's all in our heads. In fact, rumor has it that the TSR periodicals department used to fear...

I don't see how that's going to stop someone quoting Family Guy, or choosing a "me stooopid barbarian, duh" roleplaying style for their half-orc, or even just a pun-based name. Even the players that are onboard with your plans may find themselves in a mischevious mood and play up, and so forth...

Double post

I think it says it all that you're just using very old, very tired jokes there. Of course they're not amusing, you're just ripping off Python and +2 backscratchers have been around for 30 years. It has to amuse the DM for it to end up in the campaign and end up an in-joke, and obviously those...

True, but that's great fantasy novels, and as another form of media it is different to RPGs in subtle yet critical ways. An author has total control over every. word. on. every. page. (That is, before the external editing process begins, obviously). He or she doesn't have other people gathered...

Hussar, that critique is in your head. I'm saying I'd run a million miles from a chinstroker game, and that they're the antithesis of taking the game lightly unless you're taking the piss out of yourself in doing so, like say Hackmaster does (by double immersively pretending the game is such...

RPGs as a sociology experiment, postmodern literary statement, or politically correct educational message is Forge or RPG.net chinstroker territory, and I'd fall over myself in my rush to get away from such a game table. I don't think you can get further from D&D humour than that, unless said...

I'm seeing a disconnect you could drive a truck through, here. Silliness = lighthearted, no? When you are being silly, you are generally smiling and/or having fun, therefore depression is a bit mutually exclusive. It feels awkward having to spell that out, surely you know this? The...

I see the point you're trying to make, but none of the examples you gave are D&D humour. D&D humour is difficult to pin down (but I'd refer you to Monty Python and the Holy Grail, Order of the Stick, and Knights of the Dinner Table as starting points), but Stooges, guns that say "BANG" and...

But that's the default; most DMs seem to be trying to run something steeped in drama and epic storytelling, whereas the reality is that this is a social group of friends, playing a game where silly situations occur naturally because at a fundamental level RPGs are largely silly (just like...

I think you're making a classic geek error. We geeks like D&D and fantasy. But also - We geeks like logic, and have a habit of extending logic to it's logical conclusions. Problem: Extending fantasy to it's logical conclusion is like applying logic to romance, humour or music: It doesn't...