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By the way, I appreciate all the advice and recommended resources. What I'm really interested to know is if anyone else would be interested in this, or if I'm just a weirdo. That is, who here likes Pathfinder, and would like it more if 3e style spellcasting was replaced with something else?

That sounds like something I'd be very interested in, DA. Any chance I/we could take a look?

But 8 + 1 + 11 = 20. That was the joke.

"Vancian" is common shorthand for "memorize, fire and forget" (or just "fire and forget" for sorcerers, bards, and the like), which I don't like. I'm also not a fan of spell slots or spells that take the place of skills, though neither are particularly "Vancian". EoM is certainly not Vancian...

A paradox! But one that aptly describes a project I'm working on for Pathfinder. Basically I'm working on taking the spellcasting classes from Pathfinder and replacing standard spells with spell-like and supernatural abilities. Think witch hexes, or oracle revelations, or specialist wizard...

I like a lot of your general points, but this particular point is one I was trying to dismiss in my first post upthread. What you describe is not a problem with classes, but a problem with DnD classes. A game like Spycraft or Traveller feature classes that offer the broad range of character...

That's a fair complaint, but we already have Appendix N to show the Philistines* their roots. We could think of this project as updating Appendix N, if we think that would be fairer to those authors. At any rate, there's something to be said for highlighting what has been influential and...

Sure, but that's my point. If you want lotsa powers, you'd better silo them.

Those are Green Ronin supplements. I spot the Advance Bestiary and Advanced Player's Manual.

An axiom I just thought of on free point-buy vs siloing: The fewer powers a system has, the more likely a classless point-buy system can be well balanced. That is, if there are only a few dozen tricks, they can only interact with each other in so many ways, and if you can account for them all...

Replying a little late. Sorry! I don't quite see it the same way. Where we might agree is in saying that classless systems have to work harder that systems with classes to ensure balance. But it sounds as though you think relying on classes is a crutch or a fallback for balanced system design...

Cool idea. I'd add The Black Company novels by Glen Cook to the list, but what you have is pretty solid. From Black Company, Mistborn, and WoT, (and SoI&F, to a lesser extent), one gets the idea that magic is more thematic than generalist, and (except for Mistborn) that magic doesn't need to be...

Siloing! Siloing is when a game designer restricts access to powers so that you can only acquire certain powers alongside other powers. It's like sorting powers into bins (or silos) and restricting players to selecting only a smaller number of bins, if not just one. Classes are a classic way of...

Downloaded my prize today. Thanks to Mark for the great contest, and congrats to my co-winner ("Everybody has won, and all must have prizes!").

For mechanics, how about neutral clerics don't get domains, but they can channel both positive or negative energy, can spontaneously cast both heal and inflict spells, can cast good and evil spells, don't have an alignment aura, and maybe some other bennies to balance with the lack of domain...

Either way, it looks like it's going to be a quantum finish ("No fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!").

Take a look at the Totem Barbarian from Unearthed Arcana. It's open game content and available here.

It's a way of thinking about actions per turn in a game as a resource. The clearest example I can think of is in the board game Agricola. Each player starts with two family members, each of whom can do a limited number of things per turn. As soon as you have a kid, the stuff you can do per turn...

And I'm not even Sicilian!

Let's see if I can remember Jesuit logic. Whereas, "No gaming is better than bad gaming"; whereas, "Good gaming is better than no gaming"; whereas, when confronted with bad gaming, one's choices are to accept it (i.e., choose bad gaming), quit (i.e., choose no gaming), quit and find a better...